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C6 Alternator belt squeak
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Author Post
Gobxoy   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 07:57am
Joined: Jan 20 2012
Member No: #786
Location: Essex
 On the 3.0hdi the alternator recharges the battery off load etc a bit like KERS, I'm not sure if this is the same on 2.7s etc, but it would explain the clucth.

So it can decouple when the battery is fully charged to save fuel.
gmerry   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 10:08am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Looking at the drawing for the clutch/pulley for the 2.7HDi alternators, it is a simple mechanical device, no external wire or control like say a aircon compressor.

I think it's function is to reduce NVH from the belt drive. As the engine switches between driving and being driven, the alternator only ever absorbs load. Think of it like an over-run clutch.

Read the attached for more on the theory - Click Here -

Obviously the 3.0 is a more sophisticated device.

Regards
G
cruiserphil   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 10:55am

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Thanks G.

Yes, the clutch is mechanical. The good news is that my pal and I checked out the alternator last night and it's immaculate. Bearings are perfect, practically no wear on the brushes or comm. So I'm just going to replace the clutch. Seeing it's condition, I've decided to change the clutch only on the 06 car as a precaution. I'm happy you can do this without removing the alternator. You need special tooling which Sealey do for Stg£28. I bought it - great value!

On the tensioner front all appeared Ok. You have to remove it to remove/change the belt. Changing the belt is handy enough, even removing the alternator! The slow part was trying to release the mounting nuts for the air intake pipe support bracket to remove the pipe. Access is tight. Once this is removed, there's actually nice space to get at everything - from underneath the car that is!

Regards,

Phil C.
gmerry   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 11:34am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Hi Phil, great post. Any photos of removal of components to gain access. Also Sealey part number?

Regards

G
gmerry   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 12:31pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Hi, further information on alternator clutch/pulley.

There is a specialist Dutch company who manufacture these try autopulley.nl

attached are references and dimensions of the pulley unit.

It seems as though these units are specific to PSA 2.7HDI engined vehicles.

regards
G
gmerry   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 12:32pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Dimensions
cruiserphil   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 01:43pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Thanks G.

I should have posted the Sealey kit no. It's SX400. The set up on the alternator for the tooling is clever as the tool allows you to secure the alternator shaft while releasing the pulley. When I was nearly finished the changeout of the alternator I only thought then should I have taken a few photos for the forum? So apologies for that. I'll post photos of the clutch and removal tooling later.

However as regards accessing the alternator, the Citroen instructions are spot on. I know C6Dave has these loaded on the site. Basically you remove the underguard and the wheel arch liner. Removal of the air intake pipe gives ample room. You need to access the alternator from underneath the car, but if you're only changing the pulley and had the car lifted using your beam method (previously posted by you) I think there would be enough room to do it lying under the car.

As I said, we would be confident the alternator is bulletproof for high mileage life but that the clutch pulley has interim life and it's worth considering a precautionary change. The 07 car is at 100,000km, but I suppose life will be dictated by type of service - suburban stop/start motoring would be more wearing than motorway style.

Oh and as you said, there's nothing special about the alternator.

Regards,

Phil C.
Gobxoy   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 06:31pm
Joined: Jan 20 2012
Member No: #786
Location: Essex
 Good posts gentlemen, looks like the OAD for 2.7s works if alternator still good.

& the 3.0Hdi has a slight edge, but for more cost/complexity and more likley to fail. Ho Hum.

I extracted this from 2009 Citroën Press relase C5C6V6june.pdf

An energy recovery systemThis engine is fitted with an alternator which recovers energy during deceleration and braking. The batteries can therefore partially recharge themselves without need to rely on supplementary energy.

A piloted alternator is fitted which, as well as recovering energy during deceleration, only charges when necessary, to the benefit of fuel consumption and emissions.
gmerry   
Wed Jun 13 2012, 06:46pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Phil, good point on the shorter life of the pulley first the alternator unit.

Citroen don't list a separate spare pulley but with your post and the numbers I listed, there is no reason why anyone should have to replace the entire alternator if it is just the pulley that is worn.

Regards
G
cruiserphil   
Mon Jan 27 2014, 08:14pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 I haven't posted on maintenance issues in recent times as thankfully both cars have being doing what their supposed to do. However I just finished a service on the 06 car including an auxiliary belt change. While doing this I came across two points that hopefully are of interest. With the auxiliary belt off I decided to change the alternator clutch as I've had one on the shelf for quite a while and the car now has c. 116000km run up. Anyway, the good news and point 1 is that it can be changed in situ without removing the alternator.



You can see the removal/fitting tool inserted in the pulley. All that is required is to uncouple and move the boost pipe (which sits in front of the auxiliaries) out of the way to give ample clearance.

When removing the housing that connects the boost pipe to the butterfly housing, I noticed that there was a tear in the seal between the housing and the boost pipe. On the parts diagram the seal is not a separate item. It looks like the seal comes with the housing. However, my friendly Citroen parts supplier and I took a hunch that the seals come with the boost pipe. And so to point no.2...they do!



[br

Regards,

Phil C.
gbl   
Thu May 15 2014, 01:32pm
Joined: Jul 06 2012
Member No: #936
Location: Copenhagen
 Dear cruiserphil,

Thanks for your very instructive posting on changing the C6 alternator pulley while the alternator is in situ.
My C6 2.7 HDi just developed the "no charging syndrome", and I suspect the alternator pulley to be the culprit. I have not taken anything apart yet, and want to be prepared first with the part and the tool. I hope to do the job with the alternator in situ like you did.

josok is suggesting a reasonably priced tool with eBay item number 331025515276. However josok did not perform the operation with the alternator in situ. From your memory, do you think there is enough space for this tool (please check the eBay reference), which appears to be longer than the stubby one you used?

- Click Here -


Also, did you find a good source for the new pulley?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Best regards
gbl
gmerry   
Thu May 15 2014, 03:20pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Hi, the Bosch alternator was supplied with a Litens clutch pulley as original equipment. Lietens reference is 920731

In the aftermarket, this might have a Litens or a Bosch part number.

There are inferior non functional clutch replacements on the market, claiming compatibilty. Yes they will fit, but will not control the vibrations as per the original and induce additional loadings on the drivetrain.

Personally, I managed to get a good replacement from Rotating Machines Ltd who are based in London UK. You will probably need to telephone them which sounds like a hassle but at least you get a chance to check what you are buying, as opposed to just clicking a mouse.

Regards
G
gbl   
Sun Jul 06 2014, 06:53am
Joined: Jul 06 2012
Member No: #936
Location: Copenhagen
 Freewheel pulley replaced and the alternator is charging again. Thanks to cruiserphil for providing the instructions on how to replace the pulley with the alternator in situ.

I bought my new pulley from SKF. Reference number VKM 03303. The pulley is probably just packed and marketed by SKF since it contains a Japanese NSK bearing. It also bears the Litens reference number mentioned above by gmerry, and it is marked "Made in Canada". It is 100% identical to the defective pulley (life time 104000 kms), and no sign of any design updates.
ChrisHunter   
Sun Jul 06 2014, 06:59pm
Joined: Jul 20 2010
Member No: #188
Location: Lancashire
 we hear crickets every now and then, at either end of our daly commute (35 miles each way) - maybe once a week, sometimes at end of journey, sometimes on successive days, sometimes when we're part-way, paused at some 'lights, but never next time we're stopped or paused ... been like this for maybe the last three or four months ... we heard them several times on the way home last night, for first time in about a month ...

seems odd, that's it's so irregular ...

what chance suspension fluid sometimes finding its way onto the belt ?
magicands   
Mon Jul 07 2014, 06:04pm
Joined: Sep 13 2012
Member No: #1021
Location: Coventry, Warwickshire
 Clutch on the alternator on its way out.
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