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Chipping a C6 2.7HDi |
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Driscodave
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  Member No: #283
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Have a 2006 C6 Exclusive and after 19000 miles in last 7 months, love comfort, mid range pace, silence etc and the fact it's not another Audi/Merc/BMW etc BUT....dreadful hesitation from standing, bad when pulling out of side turning onto busy roads and would like a bit more performance. Anyone got experience of chipping a C6 - Is it worth it? N E Problems? | ||
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RichardKC6
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 Member No: #49
Location: Leicestershire |
I suspect problems would manifest themselves all over the country, not just in the North East... (The hesitation is often attributed to the gearbox's protection measures to stop it prematurely failing due to the torque from that engine; it's not a lack of power issue, it's a feature not a bug. Even if a chip upgrade does alter the behaviour, you'll probably end up forking out for a new gearbox relatively soon). |
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michaelb
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  Member No: #14
Location: London |
Also I suspect some of the hesitation is due to having two turbo-chargers to spin up before the action begins. You notice it most at roundabouts. It's not really bothered me until this week when I found myself at a red light in the wrong lane and knew I had to be pretty quick off the line to get into the correct lane before the imminent next junction. When the lights changed I floored it, mashed it into the carpet, and by the time the C6 got moving the Focus beside me was a car's length ahead of me. Doh! That was the first time I've done it that way and it will be the last; it proves 'flooring it' is the worst possible way. Obviously all sorts of safety functions kick in. I think the quickest way off the line is to momentarily let the car creep forward then apply the throttle progressively. But you are right, it's not quick off the line. I miss my 1988 Alfa 164: 3.0 12 valve - no turbos, no cats, no EGR, nothing accept good old torque and power. Nothing beat it off the line. The gearbox had lot's of creep, all you had to do was take your foot off the brake and you were powering past everyone, add a touch of throttle and it rocketed away. Great car. |
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pclark
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 Member No: #3
Location: North Yorkshire |
My 3.0Hdi has a slight delay when moving off but doesn't sound anything like as bad as people are describing on the 2.7. I believe the 3.0 has twin sequential turbochargers instead of twin 'parallel' ones. | ||
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dsharples
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  Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
You could look at Musketier, who I'm told are to be a respected German Tuner of all things French. They make a variety of tuning items for the C6. They actually re-map the original ECU - so this is not one of the common "tuning boxes" you find on Ebay. The problem is, you've got to post it to Germany... I also don't believe its the Engine ECU alone that causes the problem. On the 3.0 XF, I'm told Jaguar have better integrated the Engine and Gearbox ECU's to collaborate to mitigate the power delivery issues both 2.7 installations suffered. The Jag also uses a different transmission (I understand). My father's new 3.0 XF certainly doesn't have the C6 "moment" from a dead stop - and has generally very smooth power delivery in all driving conditions. However, I was driving a brand new MB E350 CDI 7G-Tronic (Auto) Coupe last week, and that also had a noticeable hesitancy from standstill (which my wife's, MB C220CDI Brabus Auto doesn't) - so I wonder how much of a generic problem this is with conventional "generic" slushbox automatics with bi-turbo diesels in heavy cars.... Is there any torque-limiting going on to protect the transmission? |
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c6bern
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Member No: #148
Location: Bern |
vis-a vis hesitancy from a standstill with the automatic transmission. The fluid in the torque converter is cold, and a torque converter is still a heat engine. The transmission idles in N. Feature not a bug. Back in the day, with the big Detroit iron, to get off the line with a torqueflight or hydramatic the trick was to pre-heat the transmission oil. Or rev the engine past 4k or so in D, then step off the brake. Not so good for the Heat-Exchanger in modern cars, or should I say the Heat-Exchanger is not up to the task. Especially if the transmission if programmed/designed to idle in N. The torque at the input shaft is pretty much of a non-issue, and can be regulated by the Heat-Exchanger thermostat. |
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RichardKC6
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Member No: #49
Location: Leicestershire |
Holding the tranny at stall point before launching is a good way to get off the line quickly, and a quick way to kill your transmission. I used to do the same trick with my Supra very, very occasionally. Rev the engine past 4K? Big Detroit Iron? I'm not even sure my old Eldorado would hit 4K...  I think the torque issue is more to do with the final drive than the input though. |
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c6bern
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Member No: #148
Location: Bern |
RichardKC6 wrote ... I used to do the same trick with my Supra very, very occasionally. There is a teensy difference between a 60's Detroit Musclecar and a Supra. |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
You can get a C6 re mapped, Angel Tuning will do it (was going to have mine done last year but waited until it came out of warranty) Big issue though, it requires the ECU taking apart to do it and is a 4 hour job I'm afraid as it can't be done via the OBII port You can get a 'Tuning Box' for the same money (no not one of those fuel boosters on eBay) but the connection point is way down the back of the engine so not easy to fit I'm afraid. |
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dsharples
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Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
Excuse my ignorance, do modern transmissions idle in "N". if they do, I assume the car wouldn't "creep"? With the C6, if its busy, and I *really* need to shoot a gap, I've got into a habit of nudging the throttle a little just before the gap, and then "going for it" when the opportunity presents. The only issue with this is that you slowly start rolling forward into the path of a moving vehicle.. so have to be prepared to stop! Its probably a little disconcerting for the other party as well... |
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c6bern
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Member No: #148
Location: Bern |
dsharples wrote ... do modern transmissions idle in "N". c6bern wrote ... The auto transmission (AWTF-80_SC) is used in MANY other cars. The shifting of gears is managed by a sophisticated computer programme which over-sees a clutch-to-clutch actuation. Gear changes are accomplished by one clutch engaging the instant the clutch from the previous gear disengages. The transmission control module (TCM) is located inside the transmission housing, instead of being located outside it. The advantage of this is to reduce external wiring as well as to provide a constant environment for TCM operation which encourages longevity. One aspect of the advanced nature of the electronics is at idle, it automatically selects neutral gear to reduce internal temperatures and improves fuel economy. Wikipedia : - Click Here - |
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RichardKC6
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Member No: #49
Location: Leicestershire |
c6bern wrote ... RichardKC6 wrote ... I used to do the same trick with my Supra very, very occasionally. There is a teensy difference between a 60's Detroit Musclecar and a Supra. Not a huge one though; big ol' slushbox and a 3.0 straight six designed in the '60s. Besides, my Jeep's a teensy bit of Kenosha iron... |
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c6bern
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Member No: #148
Location: Bern |
RichardKC6 wrote ... Not a huge one though; big ol' slushbox and a 3.0 straight six I guess it depends on ones idea of huge or big. Chrysler Hemi engines of this generation displaced 426 cu in (7 L). ... the engine became legendary, with "Hemi" becoming one of the most familiar automobile-related words in the United States. The 426 Hemi was nicknamed the "elephant engine" at the time, a reference to its large dimensions and weight. Tipping the scales at a dry weight of 843 lb (382 kg), the 426 Hemi was considerably more massive than other engines of the era, such as the Ford 427 at 650 lb (290 kg) and the Chevrolet Big Block at 685 lb (311 kg). --- The street Hemi version was rated at 425 bhp (316.9 kW) ... The engine could produce much higher HP figures with relatively few modifications ... ref: - Click Here - Of course petrol was almost free back then. |
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tonyrome
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  Member No: #15
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I don't think the lag issue is because the gearbox slips into neutral at standstill. If you lift off the brake and let the car move slowly in drive, then plant the accelerator, there's still a definite lag before it accelerates. The auto gearbox is one of the things I dislike about the car. Give me a nice 6 speed manual any day. | ||
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Ped
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 Member No: #82
Location: Maidenhead |
I just chill out and relax. it's what the C6 was made for. Let others blast away from the line. | ||
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