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Replacing glow plugs on a 2.7 HDI |
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gmerry |
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Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi e3steve and anyone else who has replaced a glowplug, did you start the job with the engine really hot or at least at operating temperature?. In theory, the alloy heads have a higher thermal expansion rate that the steel/ceramic of the plug. Did the first one come out and then the subsequent one get harder as the engine cooled? Just trying to find out if this is a factor at all. Off on a little tangent, it seems that the "norm" for Discovery 3s with the same engine is for the body to come off, remove the cylinder heads and then machine/hammer out the plugs from the combustion side backwards. It seems as though you E3steve had a narrow escape from that kind of job escalation. Regards G |
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e3steve |
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Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
321dave wrote ... Hi all, i was looking around the web today before purchasing 6 NGK glow plugs and i spotted this box! They appear to be BERU as OEM for Citroen. From what i could find anyway. Steve were the glow plugs you extracted intact Beru by any chance? Mine were Bosch, Dave. Don't forget that the engines are probably manufactured at Ford's Dagenham Engine Assembly plant, so I guess it depends from which supplier Ford out-source the various components for the Lion engine. |
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e3steve |
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Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
gmerry wrote ... Hi e3steve and anyone else who has replaced a glowplug, did you start the job with the engine really hot or at least at operating temperature?. In theory, the alloy heads have a higher thermal expansion rate that the steel/ceramic of the plug. Did the first one come out and then the subsequent one get harder as the engine cooled? Just trying to find out if this is a factor at all. Off on a little tangent, it seems that the "norm" for Discovery 3s with the same engine is for the body to come off, remove the cylinder heads and then machine/hammer out the plugs from the combustion side backwards. It seems as though you E3steve had a narrow escape from that kind of job escalation. Regards G My engine was stone cold, Gordon. That is a very good point that I didn't factor in until after the event (like a muppet!)... As you state: lucky escape (although it didn't seem that way at the time!). |
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321dave |
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Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin |
Thanks Steve, my Plugs are on route this morning and im getting a basic 8mm extractor kit just in case. Hopefully I won't be needing it! Just thinking, how long would it realistically take to strip down the top area to get access to the glow plugs? and would the engine still be warm enough? |
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e3steve |
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Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
321dave wrote ... Having done said strip-down to that level, I reckon I could be unscrewing the glowplugs within an hour or two.Thanks Steve, my Plugs are on route this morning and im getting a basic 8mm extractor kit just in case. Hopefully I won't be needing it! Just thinking, how long would it realistically take to strip down the top area to get access to the glow plugs? and would the engine still be warm enough? If the engine is stopped when the fan cuts in it will stay good and hot for that amount of time, but the coolant-dump will be the hazardous part of the operation at that sort of temperature! Pre-remove the undertray and the engine cover, and have all your tools laid out and to hand alongside (and at a sensible height -- I lay mine out in an orderly fashion on and old picnic table, right next to where I'm working). Don't forget to elevate the bonnet beyond its normal open position, and have plenty of light on the subject! - Click Here - |
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321dave |
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Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin |
e3steve wrote ... 321dave wrote ... Having done said strip-down to that level, I reckon I could be unscrewing the glowplugs within an hour or two.Thanks Steve, my Plugs are on route this morning and im getting a basic 8mm extractor kit just in case. Hopefully I won't be needing it! Just thinking, how long would it realistically take to strip down the top area to get access to the glow plugs? and would the engine still be warm enough? If the engine is stopped when the fan cuts in it will stay good and hot for that amount of time, but the coolant-dump will be the hazardous part of the operation at that sort of temperature! Pre-remove the undertray and the engine cover, and have all your tools laid out and to hand alongside (and at a sensible height -- I lay mine out in an orderly fashion on and old picnic table, right next to where I'm working). Don't forget to elevate the bonnet beyond its normal open position, and have plenty of light on the subject! - Click Here - Thanks very much Steve, very much appreciated. I do something similar myself, in that I try to layout the tools/socket sizes needed before doing anything (still have to go lookin for something in the end). I was mindful of the 70-80 deg coolantant coming out of bottom of the rad fast, but I'm thinking a metal bucket would work better here than my normal plastic container. I had forgotten about the elevated bonnet as well! Many thanks for that reminder/link, I'll read that and get ready. I'll most likely delay to next week at this stage as no extractor kit or glow plugs have arrived yet. I'm looking forward to smooth running 2.7hdi. Hopefully, unless something else needs attention. |
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gmerry |
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Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
I like the orderly approach! For draining the coolant, at least partially, I disconnect the heater quick connect under the air cleaner housing. Its easy to get to and avoids me going near that bla&*ed plastic radiator, the connections of which I do not trust in the slightest. For refilling the coolant next time, I'll use the vacuum refill method with the Pela650. Good luck with it. G PS, I'll post a link on the NGKdotDE website which has a few details on these glowplugs. - Click Here - Apparently they are Self Regulating Metal type, two internal coils, one is the heater element the other is the regulator. Good old magnesium oxide insulator. They stress need for reaming out the cylinder head recess if there is any carbon build up before replacing. They are designed for a 11V supply (any guesses as to where that comes from?) and it warns against testing them with a direct battery feed because there is a danger they will burn out. Also they say not to leave the ignition on without the engine running, reminds me of burning out the ignition coil on my dads car aged 6!. Not sure how this fits in with a long Lexia session too. |
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321dave |
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Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin |
gmerry wrote ... I like the orderly approach! For draining the coolant, at least partially, I disconnect the heater quick connect under the air cleaner housing. Its easy to get to and avoids me going near that bla&*ed plastic radiator, the connections of which I do not trust in the slightest. For refilling the coolant next time, I'll use the vacuum refill method with the Pela650. Good luck with it. G PS, I'll post a link on the NGKdotDE website which has a few details on these glowplugs. Apparently they are Self Regulating Metal type, two internal coils, one is the heater element the other is the regulator. Good old magnesium oxide insulator. They stress need for reaming out the cylinder head recess if there is any carbon build up before replacing. They are designed for a 11V supply (any guesses as to where that comes from?) and it warns against testing them with a direct battery feed because there is a danger they will burn out. Also they say not to leave the ignition on without the engine running, reminds me of burning out the ignition coil on my dads car aged 6!. Not sure how this fits in with a long Lexia session too. Thanks for those details G, I meant to look more on the NGK website. I have a seat reaming kit I bought a few year back for a C5 1.6hdi I was running at the time, that had a blowing injector that needed to be reseated. I'll need to also get another bit of kit for the plugs. Thanks for that reminder. |
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321dave |
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Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin |
Anyone see this polish website, has details about the 2.7 engine and pictures of failures of internal components. Thought it might be of interest. Just turn on google translate. - Click Here - |
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Frode |
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Joined: Jun 08 2017
Member No: #3171
Location: Bergen |
Hi all, I tried my luck with the glow plugs today, and all went well for a time. Having worried sick about shearing plugs, I have used penetrating oil on the plugs many, many times over a month now, and with a warm engine the plugs all rotated with minimal effort (<10Nm). Thanks for all advise given in this thread! However, while the plugs themselves rotate, they are still almost impossible to remove when they are fully unscrewed. I managed to get 5 out, but the sixth is really fighting back. Since that glow plug is probably ok (resistance seems ok), I am tempted to put it back in, but that is easier said than done. I have drenched it in oil, leaving it overnight. Since the new plugs are as unwilling to go in as the old were getting out, a mechanic with some experience with diesels suggested visiting the friendly neighborhood weapons' dealer, to get a cleaner tool for a rifle. Getting hold of a proper reamer (or what it is called - it is the purpose tool for this job) seems a long shot, given that the car has to be ready in a week or so. However, I will try that too. However, it seems to me that the problem is in the body part of the glow plug and inlet manifold, and not the tip and inside the combustion chamber (the tips of the glow plugs all look very clean) Has anyone else encountered this problem? What did you do? I guess an old glow plug is too fragile to use as a basis for fashioning a DIY reamer. Best, Frode |
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Frode |
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Joined: Jun 08 2017
Member No: #3171
Location: Bergen |
Update: The last glow plug came out after the oil treatment and using an electric drill to spin it while also dragging it out. The weapon cleaner kit proved to work very well, and the car is now back on the road. Best, Frode |
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