| C6owners :: Forums :: C6 Support :: The Garage |
<< Previous thread | Next thread >>
|
Disaster - LDS Tank exploded while car jacked up at one side with two wheels hanging |
    Please Register to enjoy additional Member Benefits |
| Author | Post | ||
nickyg
 
|
|
||
   Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
According to Citroen, the "V9" cap is the most up to date one, and comes with the latest model tank anyway. There is an approximately 50mm cylindrical extrusion in this cap, and a more involved looking rubber gasket compared to my old one, which does look a lot simpler. I'm not sure of the significance of these, but I'm sure there's some reasoning in the redesign. As G is pointing out, though, the pressures that would blow a tank are highly unlikely to be effectively vented in their entirety by any type of cap! Also, after recommending you change the 70 bar sphere whilst you have no tank or LDS, I was pondering this: When one drains the LDS tank according to the guidelines (in the low position, uncouple pipe behind osf wheel and drain off. Depressurisation not mentioned) does this negate the need to depressurize the system, either manually or via lexia, for unscrewing spheres and such? I wonder if anyone would know the way of things with that scenario? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
pridbor
|
|
||
|
|
Hi Gents, Could somebody please clarify from which date the new tanks were installed? This might help those of us who are lurking and hoping one day to get a C6 
|
||
|
|
|
||
C6Dave
|
|
||
   Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
pridbor wrote ... Hi Gents, Could somebody please clarify from which date the new tanks were installed? This might help those of us who are lurking and hoping one day to get a C6 Part numbers changed from RPO 12030 - 12151 then the tank changed again at RPO 12152, but the cap remained the same as RPO 12030 RPO 12030 equates to 16/10/2009 using the ORGA calculator: - Click Here -
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Clive980
|
|
||
  Member No: #901
Location: Leeds |
Well the tank is now swapped and much to my relief my suspension system is restored. It wasn't as tricky as I was expecting it to be. I managed to remove it by just detaching the water reservoir from the wing and a small piece of plastic trim above the headlight. Once installed it took 3 litres of LDS fluid then I pressuried the reservoir using a brake bleed kit and started her up. It took a good few minutes for anything to happen. I put the suspension on high and waited for it to rise then moved the steering from lock to lock and then put it back to low to check the LDS level. I then put a further 1.5 litres in. I can now see the difference between the old and new reservoir caps. The original cap is a one way valve to allow air into the tank to avoid a vacuum. The new cap is a two way valve and will also release air from the system. | ||
|
|
|
||
|
nickyg
|
|
||
|
Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
Good stuff Clive! I know some French car aficionados believe citroen hydraulics to be self bleeding, but did you consider going to the bleeding/de pressurising screws to be on the safe side? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
drummond
|
|
||
 Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh |
Well, the DS is self bleeding. Everything comes back under virtually no pressure, to a 4 litre tank under the bonnet. Looks like a small oil drúm, (usually) painted green. It's open to the air, via a small hole in the cap. The GS/CX/SM/Xantia are all the same. So, to the C6.....mine says that the LDS is only to be changed by a dealer (!), as it's sealed etc. And the LDS is hygroscopic (unlike LHM). The new cap would appear to negate all of this, and there is the whiff of a work around to get around a problem which the dealers know about and the rest of us don't. Or am I wrong? Tim |
||
|
|
|
||
|
nickyg
|
|
||
|
Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
Ok, trying to wrap my head around this, and I agree with drummonds logic. When I changed my tank and 3 front spheres, I'm thinking on the stages of this and how it can be so in a supposedly hygroscopic system. 1. Put car in low position and remove lds cap 2. Release front and rear bleed/de pressurising screws one turn. 3. Both resulted in the ejection of about half a litre (each) of very frothy lds, and car sinking to the bump stops. Almost like orangey cappuccino! Definitely air in that fluid, then. Possibly from the failed sphere, possibly drawn through tank crack. When settled, fluid is dark brown. 4. Drain lds tank and remove. Then replaced 3 front spheres. Nsf very obviously failed. 5. Fit tank, do up hoses. Fill with initial 4 litres lds to max level. Must be lots of air voids in the system now! 6.Pressurise and bleed with lexia. Top up further 1.5 litres. Where the hell has all the air voids in the previously drained system been pushed to!? :-\ That's 1.5 litres of air bled out after the first refill to allow the top up of same amount lds, if you think logically about it The only thing I can think of is that the BHI valves and filters have the ability to to dispell the air, but if so, how come my old lds let from the de pressurising screws was extremely aerated? Does anyone else think that Citroen can't have it both ways? Ie: specifying this hygroscopic fluid, but in a system that is seemingly in contact with the atmosphere? I'm a little stumped. But, as long as it works! If these new tanks, spheres and lds fluid goes awry on me I will definitely be looking to get a definitive answer on the logic of it all! Nicky |
||
|
|
|
||
|
nickyg
|
|
||
|
Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
Ok, more real world info! I passed my mot (in N Ireland they are dedicated, impartial testing centres) and this involves multiple lifting, shaking of car etc etc. Even though I requested LDS cap off when lifted I had an issue the next morning , following a bout of citaerobics the previous evening (low, high, low, steering lock etc). An LDS leak! You may remember I completely renewed the spheres, tank, oil and clips a short while ago. The news here is where I found the LDS escaping. All previous areas were fine. The tank seam; the jubilee clips on the pipes etc. It was coming up through the holes on the new style cap! I subsequently removed 300ml of LDS with a syringe. I must have over filled, but it is quite difficult to gauge when to stop, from now on I will simply fill till with the bottom of the cap "basket" is awash, rather than try and honour the levels indicated on the technical documentation. Back to the cap, then! It is clear to me now that this new cap has capabilitiesd the old one didn't. It seeped away a good 150-200ml of fluid and averted (from initial inspections) any hose or tank damage. I suspect the longer reaching "fins" on the underside of the cap may act to draw pressurised liquid up towards the egress points on the cap via some sort of capillary action. Nicky
|
||
|
|
|
||
gmerry
|
|
||
 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi, capillary action is not part of this. Trust me, its my job to know such things. On the hygroscopic nature of the LDS fluid, this has got to be put in perspective. Eg, compared to a glycol based brake fluid, the tendency is pretty mild. Regards G |
||
|
|
|
||
|
nickyg
|
|
||
|
Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
Hi G, I understand the tendency is much less so, but on the other hand the system seems to have, at the very least, an inversely proportionate exposure to the atmosphere, in relation to a braking system. One value seems to cancel out the other. I think what some are saying is, there is a square peg in a round hole somewhere in all of this! Then, even still, we are left with the conundrum of where this system is able to let, in some cases, 20% of its capacity in air during so called "self bleeding". I note some very well versed citroen aficionados are poring over similar issues and, seemingly, have not really nailed it down. The only way I can see that Citroen aren't kludging this is if they had worked out the limited hygroscopic nature of their new hydraulic fluid (lds) to be in perfect equilibrium with whatever mechanism allows their hydractive 3+ system to let air the atmosphere. That would be impressive, but I doubt it is the case! Regarding the cap extension "fins" that become submerged in the filler basket when ever lds is forced above the requisite level, I was only positing a guess as to the reason for their existence. Would it not be possible for fluid to "climb" these fins under pressure towards the base of the cap and escape? (I genuinely don't know much about capillary action, if indeed this would qualify as such). All I know is, my old tank split, and hoses gave way before the old cap ever let any lds from the top holes. I was happy (as one can ever be with a leak! ) to find this new cap had the capability to draw fluid from the tank and out, rather than my overzealous topping up causing a more serious issue! Regards, Nicky |
||
|
|
|
||
|
speedfix
|
|
||
 Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
If the car is to be lifted with a two post hoist without the possible damage to the lds tank or related pipework connectors IMO first slacken the filler cap, have the car in the normal ride hieght turn off engine and within two to three minutes position the lift arms and lift the car. It seems the car when lifted slowly with in the time thinks the ride hieght is to high and releases all pressure within the system. Time to check all the joints and they will show up in some strange places. DO not turn the ignition key on for any reason till the car is returned to the ground. ALL IMO so please correct if needed! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
yorkxx
|
|
||
|
Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Any photos of this? | ||
|
|
|
||
|
speedfix
|
|
||
|
Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
Pics in time, still finding my way round this forum and the car. Originally a Slough supplied car it seems with all the gadgets, finding things to set up from the manuals every day. Getting better each day. Great amount of intrest from all who ride in the car. Rear lounge seating is most comfy. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
yorkxx
|
|
||
|
Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Great stuff Speedfix, look forward to the pic's. Cheers |
||
|
|
|
||
|
jamesnoble
|
|
||
  Member No: #965
Location: Coventry |
Just read this thread. My tank split last week (not at the seem but a fracture in the plastic in the lower half of the tank opposite the coolant tank) when the car was being MOT'd and jacked up with the front wheels hanging. I was off on holiday the next day but thankfully Citroen Coventry had a new tank on the shelf (porbably as a result of your misshap). Took me about an hour to change the tank and was off on holiday by 2 p.m. Must say I had never noticed that warning in the handbook. More interesting the car has been jacked up many times before and nothing happened but I did have to replace the front hydraulic strut a month ago due to a sudden and severe leek. Could this have been connected? We live and learn... |
||
|
|
|
||
 User Colour Key:Head Administrator, Administrator, C6 owner, Technical Expert, C6 Premier Discount Club |
|
Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Site Disclaimer | Contact Details | Warranty | Sitemap | C6 Insurance | Quick Facts | Re Call Info | Downloads | Error Codes
| Site and Graphics created by: C6Dave Forum Icons by Axialis Emotes by Seb | 
|
