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Engine Oil Pump - should it be renewed ? |
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Tjensen
 
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   Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
There are stories of C6 with engine "sudden death" linked to oil circulation. Both with 2.7 and 3.0. There are some stories about weakness in a crankshaft bearing and some incidents with the oil pump. Should we change the oil pump before 200 000 km? I suppose it can be done without taking the engine out and without too much work (The crankshaft bearing is another story) Any experiences or opinions? | ||
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Dagence
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 Member No: #3006
Location: Tampere |
I will keep changing oil and filter after every 20 km in summer and in winter every 15 tkm. After every change oil level has been on a tiny bit higher level than it was with new oils.Some diesel in it? Do not overfill. I know that in some cases failures had happened few tkm after oil change but still 30 tkm is too much. Check oil level regulary. |
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MGmike
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  Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry |
There's a lot of evidence to suggest a weakness in the oil/pump/crankshaft areas, just look at the number of landi, Jag XF's, C6's etc with failed bottom ends. There is a large number of eBay listings for re-conditioned engines which suggests a significant market potential for work! However, there's little information on the true cause! I suspect it's due to wear caused by particles in the oil which is exacerbated by relatively high mileage between changes (although there have been failures at low mileages as well!). My recommendation would be to replace the oil pump as a service item at circa 160 tkm if you use the standard Citroen service interval. I change oil and filter at 10k miles (16 tkm) and I'm hopeful it'll only need a pump replaced at circa 150k miles. |
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Tjensen
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Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
Is it possible to discover weakness in the pump ? (checking oil pressure, maybe ??) In my first DS the oil lamp started to light up at idle, indicating low pressure (but I only ensured high quality oil at 10 000km intervals and had the car for 120 000 km without problems) |
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keithc
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 Joined: Apr 03 2016 Member No: #2584
Location: Kildare |
My Uncle's best friend was head mechanic at a Mercedes dealership for over 25 years. I've never forgotten him telling me that no car should do over 10k kms between oil change. We have a Ford Focus 1.4 petrol that I have always changed the oil at 10k. The car currently has 396,000 kms on it. Same with a Laguna 1.8 I had. There was 200k miles on it when I stopped driving it. Same with an Audi A4 - over 200k miles on it. Never had any issues with them. As my Uncle's friend says - oil is cheaper than an engine. |
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FraserG
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 Joined: Jan 05 2015 Member No: #2011
Location: Auckland |
Agreed Keith as would my mechanic.  |
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cruiserphil
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  Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Hello Tjensen, Same thoughts here as KeithC and FraserG. Could oil pump failures be related to cars which have lived on the extended oil change frequency? Best regards, Phil C. |
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Tjensen
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Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
The oil pump spare part is upgraded 10-15 % in capacity. That is maybe a sign of something ? If it is not too expensive I will change it sometimes after 200 000 km |
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Nikolaj
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 Member No: #4047
Location: Roskilde |
Another issue with the oilpump, is the oilpump house that has a mount for one of the cambelt pullys, the new oilpump are reinforced in that area, I don't remember what year the new oilpump was fitted to the 3.0, 2011 maybe. The new oilpump can be found for less than 100£ on fleebay: - Click Here - Pully mount are on top of the housing, the recomandation is to change around 200.000 km, all cars with broken pully mount, had passed 200.000 km. The crankshaft problems are caused by a weak spot on the crank, it was not maschined correctly at one spot, all broken cranks seems to break at the exact same place, you can almost switch pices from 2 broken cranks, and they will fit together. If you try to avoid vibrations in the engins, keeping an eye on your injectors not failing, and crank pully, the risk of crank trouble shold be quite low. |
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arconell3
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 Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar |
Tjensen wrote ... There are stories of C6 with engine "sudden death" linked to oil circulation. Both with 2.7 and 3.0. There are some stories about weakness in a crankshaft bearing and some incidents with the oil pump. Should we change the oil pump before 200 000 km? I suppose it can be done without taking the engine out and without too much work (The crankshaft bearing is another story) Any experiences or opinions? The source of that story is an expert report on a 3.0 HDI engine in a C5. The engine died during a (German) motorway trip, driving uphill at 100 mph. An expert report was made, conclusion: seized big end bearing caused by insufficient lubrication because of diluted engine oil. The damage may have been exacerbated by a less than optimal design of the crankshaft and/or a non-optimal oil pump. (The oil pump was not damaged.) I.e. the expert only suggests possible exacerbating circumstances, but the cause of the engine failure was insufficient lubrication because of heavily diluted engine oil... For those of you reading German (or Google), I can post a link to the original German forum text, just let me know. Ps: no, it was not my car, I don't have a C5. Regards, Robert |
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C6Dave
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 Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
arconell3 wrote ... I.e. the expert only suggests possible exacerbating circumstances, but the cause of the engine failure was insufficient lubrication because of heavily diluted engine oil... That would suggest leaking injector seals allowing diesel into the sump which was a common cause of Turbo failure after engine run aways on the C4 HDi and not an oil pump failure? |
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arconell3
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Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar |
C6Dave wrote ... arconell3 wrote ... I.e. the expert only suggests possible exacerbating circumstances, but the cause of the engine failure was insufficient lubrication because of heavily diluted engine oil... That would suggest leaking injector seals allowing diesel into the sump which was a common cause of Turbo failure after engine run aways on the C4 HDi and not an oil pump failure? Hi Dave, The dilution was caused by diesel in the oil, but since the whole engine was thoroughly checked and there was no mention of leaking injectors or seals, the root cause of the dilution was (as is often the case with engines fitted with DPF's) diesel getting into the sump during DPF regeneration, when post injection takes place. That in itself is not necessarily a problem when the regenerations are few and far between as would be the case with a clean engine. But if the engine becomes dirty*, regenerations occur ever more often and, since in most cases also the crankcase breather gets clogged up, it becomes more difficult for the diesel to evaporate out of the oil. Your best bet to keep a clean engine clean also in the long run, is to exclusively use the best diesel fuel (i.e. premium diesel) you can get. Premium diesel from Total, BP and Shell all have effective cleaning additives in them. They work well but slow. But at least they are designed to prevent the build-up of deposits that will eventually kill your engine. And watch your oil level. If it rises, get an oil change immediately and reduce the oil change intervals. *valve seats, pistons, EGR's, combustion air supply - see also the thread on MAP sensors in the Garage forum here. |
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