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De-pollution system removal anyone? |
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yorkxx
 
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  Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Hi, has anyone had the De-pollution filter removed from their car? I have been told that it is possible as long as it's de-programmed from the ECU at the same time otherwise the engine will over-fuel and damage will be caused. Amazingly three separate good mechanics I have asked all said the same thing, it would appear that the de-pollution filter is fitted is so the City's and Towns can be cleaned up and the Countryside polluted, that's how they work!  If one reads into what these filter systems do then effectively they are correct! They also said the removal does not effect the MOT and will give more fuel economy and better car performance too, they simply cut open the filter, remove the inside bit's then delete it from the ECU. All garages I have spoken to have said they've had 100% success with this. What's your thought's any info? Anyone done this? On discovering the horrific way the they burn off and re-generate the De-pollution filter over a 20 minute programmed stationary varying hi-rev on a special surface so as the road or floor don't burn up or melt it seem's illogical, wasteful and down right unsafe to do, so just where is the GREEN save in this? I spoke to a Volvo diesel engineer last week and he said that they refuse to carry out suchprocedures now, they would rather remove the filers all together as they are creating too much waste and are proving way far to costly + problematic for them to deal with, interesting eh? Also my local diagnostic tech said on a recent course that the lecturer had said that Diesel has had it's day and petrol and other sources of energy would become the preferred drive, the reason for this apparently was due to over complication and high maintenance costs of Diesel engines now-a-days, he also said that all the local Taxi drivers were changing to petrol cars too with over 50 doing so in the last month alone, so with this ringing in my ears I think it's time to do something about this or change back to petrol. Cheers Doug |
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gmerry
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   Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Doug. There are lots of issues mentioned in your post, but separating out some of the key ones:- 1/ The reason diesels are equipped with particle filters is primarily a public health issue. Diesel particulates (carbon "soot" plus some particularly nasty chemicals) cause lung and health problems to humans 2/ The balance of the "emissions" equipment is primarily there to reduce nitrous oxides on cars like the C6 and Euro IV in particular, this is achieved via Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR). Again nitrous oxides are responsible for public health issues (think London smog) and also specific environmental damage (think acid rain) 3/ If the vehicle is maintained properly and used with a slight aknowledgement as to the above, eg a fortnightly "high speed" journey, there is no reason why the emissions equipment should not function without any major problems for the service life of the vehicle. 4/ There is no downside for the country - regeneration of the particle filter is a starightforward combustion process - the major products of combustion are CO2 and water. 5/ All the talk about taxi drivers changing to petrol can be compressed down to the lifecycle costs (purchase cost- or lease, fuel cost, maintenance cost, downtime cost - car off road so not driving). However taxi drivers are not always the most economically rational lot, otherwise they would all drive Kias or otherwise low capital cost vehicles. There is a social responsibility issue to be faced when considering the the modification of any vehicle. Just because it can be done legally doesn't always mean that is should be. Regards G |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
For smaller cars Diesel could be on the way out. Have a read of: - Click Here - | ||
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Gobxoy
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  Member No: #786
Location: Essex |
 Petrol best if mostly short journeys, diesel more appropriate longer journeys? Also I think you would have insurance issues if the car was modified? |
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smihaialex
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  Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest |
I like petrol because: - simpler design - higher maintenance intervals - lower maintenance costs - better reliability (fewer problems) - more refined - engine is usually lighter which in term leads to a more balanced ride - better quality fuel availability (if you buy the cheapest petrol is still very good, but I wouldn't buy the cheapest diesel, not so much...) However, if you drive a big & heavy car, for now, diesels offer both better performance, as well as fuel efficiency, so... Having said that, I do believe that, had the automotive industry spent the amount of time & resources they spent towards developing better diesels, for further developing petrol engines, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now - no one would even know what diesel is, unless they were driving a tractor in the fields  One example: the Mercedes-Benz developed DiesOtto engine which is a 1.8 petrol engine, but like today's turbo-diesels, it features a stronger construction allowing for up to double the usual compression rate of a regular petrol engine, a twin turbocharger, and compression ignition instead of the traditional spark-plug ignition, vastly improving fuel both efficiency and power output... It boasts no less than 175kW (235 BHP), making it one of the most efficient engines ever built in terms of power output/engine displacement ratio, while only eating up less than 6l of regular old unleaded per 100 Km (the equivalent of 47mpg) when fitted to an S-Klasse Merc  Cheerios, Sam |
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yorkxx
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Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Hi G, Thank you for your comments and I see where your coming from, but buying a C6 isn't very ecologically green in the first place and let's face it within the current economic climate with Speculators, Government and Oil company's hitting us hard in the pocket every day it does not inspire me to be GREEN, in-fact quite the reverse recently actually. When the Americans stop firing depleted uranium shells around the World and stop using the Arctic circle as a military testing ground for all the nasty weapons etc plus all the other un-environmentally friendly things going on in this World then, and only then, will 'I' be totally be Green! And yes I re-cycle and love this Planet as much as the next Man, but it's not my little de-pollution filter removal and the love of my car thats ruining Life today. I'm much more interested in the +5 mpg fuel saving, less visits to the garage plus better performance I may achieve! Re; the Taxi drivers, I think they are a good gauge of vehicle use as most of them do a lifetimes running in one year more than we ever do, my Neighbour has Taxies + Mini-busses, one did 111,000 in under a year, now that's a gauge of a car! Skoda tdi yes, but the next change will be to Petrol according to them, they reflect what the Garage said the change to petrol will save massively on servicing costs and be just as economical and more green now. Re; Dave, Love that idea a very interesting article indeed, thanks! Best wishes Doug |
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yorkxx
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Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
smihaialex wrote ... I like petrol because: - simpler design - higher maintenance intervals - lower maintenance costs - better reliability (fewer problems) - more refined - engine is usually lighter which in term leads to a more balanced ride - better quality fuel availability (if you buy the cheapest petrol is still very good, but I wouldn't buy the cheapest diesel, not so much...) However, if you drive a big & heavy car, for now, diesels offer both better performance, as well as fuel efficiency, so... Having said that, I do believe that, had the automotive industry spent the amount of time & resources they spent towards developing better diesels, for further developing petrol engines, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now - no one would even know what diesel is, unless they were driving a tractor in the fields One example: the Mercedes-Benz developed DiesOtto engine which is a 1.8 petrol engine, but like today's turbo-diesels, it features a stronger construction allowing for up to double the usual compression rate of a regular petrol engine, a twin turbocharger, and compression ignition instead of the traditional spark-plug ignition, vastly improving fuel both efficiency and power output... It boasts no less than 175kW (235 BHP), making it one of the most efficient engines ever built in terms of power output/engine displacement ratio, while only eating up less than 6l of regular old unleaded per 100 Km (the equivalent of 47mpg) when fitted to an S-Klasse Merc Cheerios, Sam I Agree Sam, What gets to me though is why we are the only Country in the World who's Diesel prices are dearer than Petrol? Probably because everyone was encouraged to move to Diesel, then when Diesel Cars sales overtook Petrol cars on the road they stuck up the prices so there would be NO advantage to having a Diesel other than for the sake of it. Don't you just love our politicians! I must post an article regarding Water running engines that three local blokes here invented back in 1933 and the UK Government bought the rights and suppressed it, I knew a family member and it's true! I'll dig it out and let you see it, if I can find it  .I will also let you all know how I do with the experimental removal of the De-pollution filter when it happens very soon. Cheers Doug |
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smihaialex
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Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest |
It's the same in Romania - regular diesel is 6,1 RON/liter (1.23 GBP), while regular unleaded petrol is 5,9 RON/liter (1,19 GBP)... And seeing that on average, the same car is at least 2.000 GBP more expensive if you go for the diesel rather than the petrol version (same spec), then it rarely makes sense to go for the diesel For me, it makes sense only if the car is big and heavy and you would need that extra bit of torque. Cheerios, Sam |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
@yorxx +5mpg is a 'guesstimate' by the sellers and a 'come on' and there is no guarantee you will get that. Then it's down to the economics cost of the work divided by how long it would take to recover the cost if you did get + 5mpg |
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yorkxx
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Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Hi Guy's, an update to my last post on possible removal of De-pollution filter. Sorry for not getting back sooner re this. Re; Dave's point, I would be able get this done for free as a mate has done it loads of times and he has successfully carried out this on many expensive cars, particularly BMW's & Mercs with good results that deliver much more fuel economy/performance plus he doesn't have to constantly re-set the de-pollution systems, so that's why I wanted to have a go myself really. Anyway since my last post my car has been of the road several times with various issues. 1st, as we know de-pollution warning, this did not show up on the garages diagnostics, but they could see it on the dash, the garage were baffled by this, then the warning went away then came back a further 3 times, they re-set it anyway. 2. they changed the injectors saying they noticed things weren't right here two were faulty, £950.00 3. Temperature gauge was fluctuating wildly with little or no heat coming out, the overall diagnosis on this was the front engine ns-fusebox was faulty causing spurious readings and throwing up warnings etc.. Hmmm!? They also recommended I change the battery as it was low according to them, to let you know I could crank the car about 20 times before it would start this was happening before and after all the above was repaired, personally don't think a low battery would could crank as much as that if it were low? 4. so today I reluctantly replaced the battery, so we will see first thing in the morning whether it will start 1st time or not, if not - I'm straight over to Citroen as tomorrow is the last day of my warranty, I reckon it could be a lazy starter as has been suggested to me by these forums or still a fuel issue, it does sound like an engine with no fuel being supplied to it, we'll see? So to sum up, it would appear that the faulty fuse box was causing the de-pollution warning to appear, it hasn't come back in over a week now, so fingers crossed. I will update you all on the cold start up tomorrow morning with new battery fitted. Cheers |
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yorkxx
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Member No: #1005
Location: Scotland |
Update on car not starting. Well tried to start car this morning and it took x3 20 cranks to start then cut out and not a cheep, so straight to Citroen via breakdown transporter It seem's I was right in the first place being a weak starter motor, so we'll see when it arrives. I do hope that sorts this poor starting or no starting problem out as quite frankly I've had enough of the C6! downhearted Doug |
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Hattershaun
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 Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
yorkxx wrote ... Update on car not starting. Well tried to start car this morning and it took x3 20 cranks to start then cut out and not a cheep, so straight to Citroen via breakdown transporter It seem's I was right in the first place being a weak starter motor, so we'll see when it arrives. I do hope that sorts this poor starting or no starting problem out as quite frankly I've had enough of the C6! downhearted Doug Just a thought, have you waited for the glow plug light on the dashboard to go out before cranking the engine, if it's been cold first thing in the morning, say below 10 degrees C? On my 2.7HDi I've tried starting without waiting, the engine cranks over for much long than usual, but doesn't fire or it will eventually fire, accompanied with rough running for a sort while. |
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
And glow plugs are units that will fail and have to be replaced. They are 6 years old....... | ||
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travlician
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 Member No: #350
Location: Paradera |
I had 4 glow plugs not working before Lexia noticed a problem. Without Lexia there is no indication at all (apart from hard starting when cold and if not that cold initially knocking sound like traditional diesels) that there is something wrong with the glow plugs. The way the hardware is set up, detection of less than a full bank of glow plugs (3) is not possible. And yes, my car was 6 years old when 4 glow plugs were non-functional so it is something to check. By the way the best way to check is by using the plug on the glow-plug controller, a lot easier than dismantling so much to reach the glow plug contacts directly. | ||
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smihaialex
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Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest |
Hi there, Seeing that my car is now 7 years old, should I consider replacing the glow-plugs, or incandescent plugs as they are otherwise referred to? Are they hard to replace? A complicated operation? Are they expensive? Thank you, Sam |
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