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17"/18" Wheels |
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tonyrome
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  Member No: #15
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When the C6 was first released, it was a V6-only range - the 3 litre petrol and the 2.7 HDi - and both ran on 18" wheels, shod with 245/45 Michelin tyres. With the later release of the 2.2 HDi model, Citroen fitted 17" wheels and 225/55 tyres. Having driven my car on 18s and been somewhat disappointed with the amount of road noise which intruded into the cabin, I bought and fitted some C6 17" wheels, with winter tyres*. The reduction in road noise is really significant when using the 17s, so much so that the main noise is the wind noise, especially at speed. My point is that, after you have experienced the difference, you have to question whether the car was originally designed for use with 18s or whether they were just added for sake of appearance. I'm certain it was the latter. In the last 10 years, wheel sizes have increased dramatically, to the extent that, in some cases, they dominate the car and look frankly ridiculous. In the case of the C6, I would say that, visually, 18s look fine and, in fact, the design of the car could take 19s without them dominating. However, from a ride point of view, it seems as though 17s are far more appropriate. * Winter tyres are made from a softer compound, which grips better in cold conditions and in ice & snow. Unlike in the UK, where the winter tyre market is limited to a small number of people, mainly in Scotland, here in Germany they are standard fit on most cars throughout the winter months. In fact, insurance companies will automatically assign a certain proportion of blame if you crash and are found not to have them fitted! |
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C6Dave
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    Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
The main difference is the depth of tyre wall between 17" and 18" as the rolling diameter should be the same However road noise will vary between tyre manufacturer/tread pattern as well Comparing 18" Michelin fitted as standard to 17" winter tyres (you don't say what make) isn't a true comparison Only by trying 17" and 18" shod with the same make/tread pattern can you make a real comparison. I wonder how the new egergy efficient/low rolling resistance tyres would fare? In any event, tyre cost also plays a big factor and some users may decide to pay half the cost of a Michelin for something else and be happy to accept the trade off in a bit more road noise |
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tonyrome
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Member No: #15
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C6Dave wrote ... Comparing 18" Michelin fitted as standard to 17" winter tyres (you don't say what make) isn't a true comparison. Only by trying 17" and 18" shod with the same make/tread pattern can you make a real comparison. Of course but, in my case, both sets of tyres are expensive Michelins, so it's actually a pretty fair comparison. C6Dave wrote ... In any event, tyre cost also plays a big factor and some users may decide to pay half the cost of a Michelin for something else and be happy to accept the trade off in a bit more road noise Yes, I agree and if that were the reason for the amount of road noise, I'd simply buy a better tyre. However, the road noise is relatively poor with the 18s, even when they are shod with very expensive Michelin Primacys, so I'd hate to think how bad they may be if the owner were to opt for some cheap replacement! |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Some of the 'Cheaper' replacement (Toyo Proxes) I had on my 4 were quieter than Michelin Exalto's at twice the cost of the Toyo's Some very cheap 'Admiral's I used at one stage were OK as well on road noise (though not great roadholding in the wet) |
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michaelb
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 Member No: #14
Location: London |
Looking at the spare wheel I think it is safe to say the car was designed for 17" rims. Otherwise why would they have designed a wheel well in the boot to take only this size? Which, results in the worst of both worlds: firstly we don't have a full-sized spare rim in case you kerb one, we don't have a full-sized wheel in the case of a puncture and are stuck with a silly restricted speed get-you-off-the-motorway job. If we are unlucky enough to get a puncture on a long continental journey we will have to pay through the nose at the next garage to get a replacement 245/45/18 - if they have one - or do the rest of the journey at restricted speed! Secondly, we don't have a "space-saver" wheel - which would do the same job as the 17" spare - and give us a bigger boot. The 18" ones do look cool  What price vanity?
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
The wheel well in the boot will take an 18" Citroen supply a steel emergency wheel with a low rated tyre to save money You just need to find an 18" alloy at the right price to use as an alternative It's one of the most discussed threads over at C4owners and I had a full sized alloy spare in mine as I used to do a lot of motorway miles
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tonyrome
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Member No: #15
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C6Dave wrote ... Citroen supply a steel emergency wheel with a low rated tyre to save money On a car costing £40K? 
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
tonyrome wrote ... C6Dave wrote ... Citroen supply a steel emergency wheel with a low rated tyre to save money On a car costing £40K? Sh1t. My £24k (price when new) Alfa came with five full-sized alloys and tyres. Very useful in the long run when the missus managed to kerb one quite heavily and it lived in the boot thereafter. I assumed the "Rocaster" rims wouldn't fit in the wheel well. Dear oh dear. Edit: new price corrected. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
tonyrome wrote ... C6Dave wrote ... Citroen supply a steel emergency wheel with a low rated tyre to save money On a car costing £40K? If you dislike the C6 so much why don't you simply sell it and go back to an Alpha? |
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
C6Dave wrote ... If you dislike the C6 so much why don't you simply sell it and go back to an Alpha? Oh dear. This is what Tony and I said when we first posted here. It might look like we simply dislike the car. Speaking for myself that's not the case. I do like it but it's the nature of forums that people come on them to get answers to questions, most often those questions are concerning a problem, or a perceived problem, so forums tend to look negative. No one creates a new thread saying how much they enjoyed the ride and steering qualities in this morning's journey. If you were to look at the same Alfa 166 forum Tony and I are familiar with it is full of owners having problems with leaking radiators and broken cam-belts. After reading it you might conclude the 166 is an impossible car to live with but that's not the case: mine didn't give me a single problem in seven year's ownership. When on that forum I often posted about little niggles - for example I never liked the steering feel - a casual visitor might have thought I was talking that car down but I was only honestly pointing out the flaws as I saw them. The same is true here. The car has been my choice, I've put a lot (for me) of my hard-earned cash into it, it costs more to insure and more to tax than my previous car. This was a conscious decision because I wanted this car. Despite these commitments to it I still have the right to point out shortcomings as I see them. I'm not too proud to admit my purchase isn't perfect. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
It's not only Citroen who don't fit a fifth Alloy as a spare these days, some manufacturers simply supply a compressor and tyre weld kit to get you home, even on 'executive' models I'm not saying that no one has the right to point out the shortcomings of a C6, what niggles you have etc. BTW I'm still getting to know the car and what I like/don't like about it, same as everyone else. I had a C4 for nearly 5 years and it was pretty solid, but if you look over at the C4 forums you will see lots of posts from members who have had problems and are unhappy That is, as you say, the nature of forums I simply posed a question to further the discussion, it isn't meant to be confrontational
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tonyrome
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Member No: #15
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C6Dave wrote ... If you dislike the C6 so much why don't you simply sell it and go back to an Alpha? I don't 'dislike' the C6, Dave. I'm pointing out the problems I've discovered and that is a valid thing to do. If you review the faults I've found, they are all genuine issues which should have been picked up before the car was put into production. Don't blame me for pointing out the car's failings! That's down to Citroen. Anyway, I don't believe in pretending something is brilliant when it isn't, even if you've paid a lot of money for it and are trying to defend your purchase. Also, for others who may be considering buying the car, it's all useful information. They can make their own mind up as to whether wind noise above 70mph is important or not but at least they'll know. There's nothing in the Alfa (not Alpha!) range which is of interest to me at the moment. However, I will consider selling the C6 if I am unable to improve at least the wind noise, the lack of power, the navigation system and the dazzling lights problem when abroad. Those are all essentials, as far as I'm concerned. I will look at those issues when I am back in the UK next Spring and take it from there. At the moment, what pains me is that probably the main reason I am still happy with the car is because of the price I paid, rather than because the car is excellent. That's not the way it should be. In addition, I'm 'only' paying £215/year VED, rather than the £405/£435, which most others are paying. That would really annoy me, especially for the sake of 4g CO2/km! |
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
C6Dave wrote ... I simply posed a question to further the discussion, it isn't meant to be confrontational Thanks. I certainly don't mean to be confrontational either. It is a valid question. My brief C6 ownership has made me re-evaluate the 166. It does, in fact, do many things better than the C6 which is a direct competitor to it and has the advantage of being designed ten years later. The boot is bigger and more accessible, the Radio/trip counter is superior and easier to use, the brakes are better, some of my passengers think it is quieter, some of the equipment is more generous, the engine has a cultured sound like nothing else on the market this side of a Ferrari and it returns 30 mpg at UK motorway speeds. Altogether a pretty neat package for a car released in the mid-nineties. They are stunning value at the moment; the Alfa forum this week notes one went for a new record low of £425 - yes that's the same price as the C6's annual road tax. But would I go back to one? No, I don't think so. They are getting too long in the tooth these days. If they were still making them I might well have traded up and not even looked beyond the model but because they are getting so old, to replace mine with a similarly well looked after one would have been a real needle in a haystack search. I do miss the 166. But even more I miss my previous 164. It was designed in the mid-eighties, released in 1988 and many on the Alfa forum agree with me that it was superior to the 166. Its 12 valve 3.0 V6 had more low down torque and better economy, it was a joy to drive, the interior and boot were larger despite the car being shorter and narrower - I could park it casually in my parking space and still have room to throw open the door. With the 166, and even worse with the C6, I have to delicately squeeze them into exactly the right place then gingerly open the door to avoid banging it off the enclosing masonry. One chap on the forum took a Sound Pressure Meter to both his 164 and 166 and measured them with the same tyres on the same road over various speeds. The 164 was quieter. If I was more mechanically minded and had the time I would certainly be still driving one now. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
I have to agree on parking the C6, the size of the car and the doors mean you need to find a reasonably wide space and car park spaces in general do seem to have gotten smaller As for the C6 you have to remember it's a French car and a Citroen so at times there are things that don't make any obvious sense A fine example is 4 ashtrays and 3 cigarette lighters. Anyone know of another car with a similar amount, or more? |
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tonyrome
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Member No: #15
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C6Dave wrote ... and car park spaces in general do seem to have gotten smaller Definitely. There's greater pressure on space in general these days and I've noticed that parking slots are not big enough for executive/luxury cars. Even if you can fit your car within the lines, there's a serious danger of suffering a dent in your door from the car parked next to you and it's very difficult to get in and out of the space. In Berlin, there are some multi-story car parks where I actually have to perform a six-point turn to get out of the space and a three-point turn to get up to the exit barrier! Makes me wonder how those with Mercedes S-Classes and so on park, as they are quite a bit bigger again... |
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