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2.7HDi V6 Auto Gearbox Jerky Shifts

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smihaialex   
Mon Jul 21 2014, 02:40pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Uhmmmm... Tomorrow morning I'll have the 1st change of 3-3.3 liters of Comma's AWS and I'll tell you how Jax (my C6) behaves afterwards

Fingers crossed!

My best,
Sam
1 User said Thank You to smihaialex for this Post :
 cruiserphil (22 July 2014)
Berksboy   
Tue Jul 22 2014, 05:34pm
Joined: Jul 21 2014
Member No: #1794
Location: United Kingdom
I am very interested to hear how you get on as I have the exact same problem. I went to the Citroen specialist I use and he was not able to diagnose the problem; he said there were no error codes. I'm off to a gearbox specialist, based on the advice on this forum. Although I'm in Reading, I see Honest John recommends Trevor King in Epsom. Does anyone know of anyone closer?
C6Dave   
Tue Jul 22 2014, 06:59pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Berksboy wrote ...

I am very interested to hear how you get on as I have the exact same problem. I went to the Citroen specialist I use and he was not able to diagnose the problem; he said there were no error codes.

Error codes are sent by electrical sensors so do not cover every fault on a car....
Website
Hattershaun   
Tue Jul 22 2014, 11:32pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire
Berksboy wrote ...

I am very interested to hear how you get on as I have the exact same problem. I went to the Citroen specialist I use and he was not able to diagnose the problem; he said there were no error codes. I'm off to a gearbox specialist, based on the advice on this forum. Although I'm in Reading, I see Honest John recommends Trevor King in Epsom. Does anyone know of anyone closer?


You might like to try going to B.L.Autos in Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire. They are a well respected Citroen specialist with really good C6 experience and knowledge. Plenty of forum members use them, me included (for the last 15 years for all my cars).
1 User said Thank You to Hattershaun for this Post :
 Berksboy (23 July 2014)
smihaialex   
Wed Jul 23 2014, 09:33am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Hey guys,

Bit of bad news

First, I was at my Citroen Service Shop yesterday morning as scheduled and unfortunately they weren't able to let the used ATF out - the AGB OIL LEVEL OUTFALL PLUG and the AGB CASING PLUG were stuck

I had to order a new set of plugs at about 50 GBP and we'll try again once they arrive, because they said that if they were to try to force them off, they might not be able to put them back in so the car would remain immobilised for at least a week (ETA of the new plugs)...

Secondly, while getting back to the office, my INSTRUMENT CLUSTER DISPLAY behind the steering wheel went black

I was initially convinced that I'm dealing with a fuse going out or something like that, but after checking the fuses and finding none of them to be burnt out, I'm not so sure Any thoughts/ideas?

Thanks,
Sam

PS: Seems like despite my best efforts to keep this car up & running and in the best of conditions, it is determined to show me its age and its capricious character
Dan595   
Wed Jul 23 2014, 02:29pm
Joined: Nov 26 2010
Member No: #299
Location: Wiltshire
Hi Sam,

Re: instrument cluster failure - I have had this problem a year ago and sent the cluster to a company called 'Speedorepair' in the UK who fixed it no problem for not much money. You may have similar repairers in Romania - known as common problem on Renaults. Removing the cluster is easy - I can't remember quite what the invoicing time was but I seem to remember 15 minutes to remove and 15 to replace.

Dan
1 User said Thank You to Dan595 for this Post :
 smihaialex (01 August 2014)
C6Dave   
Wed Jul 23 2014, 03:16pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Instrument cluster removal is in the dashboard stripping guide - Click Here -
Website
gmerry   
Wed Jul 23 2014, 11:14pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Sam, to remove the stuck plugs, get your garage to use a hollow 17mm hex plug that fits over the inner torx plug.

The inner plug can then be removed in a vice or worse case machined out in a lathe.

Check out some of my posts, had to do this with mine. - Click Here - and - Click Here -

The level setting inner plug is a metric fine. Size is noted in one of my posts. Just buy a spare off ebay etc.

Regards
G

PS, do you have another garage to try. The one you mention sound rather amateur
1 User said Thank You to gmerry for this Post :
 cruiserphil (28 July 2014)
smihaialex   
Fri Jul 25 2014, 10:15am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Thanks G,

I tried to tell them that but they don't have it in their tool box, and unfortunately it's the best Citroen garage in town

Yes, you are spot on - they are complete amateurs and they rarely have the skills, intelligence and creativity to fix something - they usually only replace stuff and they suck even at that, often damaging other stuff while taking the old part off the car and then not being able to install the new part...

I'll see what I can do, but now I've already ordered the new plugs and paid for them... My only wish right now is that they don't damage something else while trying to remove the the old plugs that are stuck...

As for the ATF oil change itself, I got 10 liters of the Comma ASW and I wanna do it three times, to replace as much of the old ATF as possible, and my question is, how fast should I do the 2nd and third changes, or better yet -how long should I drive the car before a subsequent ATF change?

Thank you,
Sam
gmerry   
Mon Jul 28 2014, 08:51am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Hi Sam, the transmission fluid needs to be well mixed and up to temperature before proceeding with the next change. A drive of a few miles should accomplish that.

For the hollow plug removal tool, its just the case of getting a machine shop or anyone with a lathe, to bore a 13mm hole into the 17mm AF Hex plug. A precision drilling technique should be used. Note, make sure the 17mm hex plug is not made of hard tool steel or it will be impossible to bore the hole. I used a M10 threaded rod connector, available of ebay for a few pence as the plug and then bored this out.

Regarding you servicing difficulties, have you considered finding a good mechanic who is not a Citroen specialist rather than a known bad mechanic who is so callled Citroen specialist.

Regards
G
JanSr   
Thu Jul 31 2014, 02:01pm
Joined: Apr 18 2013
Member No: #1265
Location: Bunschoten
The AISIN gearbox seems to be sensitive to dirty hydraulic fluid. At first the gearbox starts to shift irregularly between 3rd and 4rth gear (most of the time) which grows worse with the time.

The best way to prevent this is to flush the oil before 60.000 km. Flushing is not the same as changing the oil. Flushing means to connect the gearbox to an automatic system that takes in the used oil and replaces it for new, while the engine is running. The oil cooler is exchanged for an adapter that connects tot the flushing system.

This way, no used oil mixes up with the fresh oil, which is the case when you change oil, mainly because of the considerable amount of oil which remains in the gearbox.

It is remarkable tos see how well most gearboxes behave after flushing.

In Holland (where I live) it is common practise since 2 years. The costs for a flushing treatment is about € 300, including fresh oil, the operation takes a little less than an hour.

When your gearbox remains to shift jerky, the only way is to change the "brains", the elektro/hydraulic shift system. Nowadays they do it for just under € 1.000,-.

3 User said Thank You to JanSr for this Post :
 Tjensen (31 July 2014) , smihaialex (01 August 2014) , e3steve (21 August 2014)
darrell   
Thu Jul 31 2014, 06:36pm
Joined: Oct 30 2011
Member No: #699
Location: Hampshire
Can anyone recommend places to get this done in the UK?
smihaialex   
Fri Aug 01 2014, 12:19pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Thanks everybody for your advice,

Much appreciated, I really mean it

I just got back from the repair shop, having just changed the first batch of ATF...

I picked up the car and drove some 10 Kilometers, parts with heavy traffic (which usually made the problem worse), and parts with relatively low traffic where I could cruise at 60 Kph (37 Mph)...

There is some improvement, but the problem is not yet fixed - it still hunts a lil' bit, but way less than before, and it still bumps me when I put it in reverse - not that much of an improvement here

Is this somewhat normal? Should be happy with the results so far and confident that after two more changes the problem will be gone?

Or is this a sign that maybe some physical damage has already occurred and ATF change will only improve it slightly, but not cure it?

Unfortunately @JanSr, in Romania we are not that advanced. First, there aren't that many automatic cars around to justify the investment in proper flushing tools - not for Citroen at least... Maybe for BMWs and Mercs - we do have plenty of those around

Second, people here have a very limited view on cars - most owners just sell the car when less common problems start occurring and let the new owner deal with it.

And the new owner, usually ends up replacing the part altogether, usually at the wrongful recommendation of the service shop "specialist" - "there's nothing that can be done, we have to replace the whole thing"...

Now, I haven't done any statistics on this, but based on my own experience and some 15.000 EUR spent on car repairs in the past 2 years, I am almost sure that somewhere in Romania there are a half a dozen guys who replaced their automatic gearboxes altogether, when symptoms like this started appearing...

Bottomline, should I be hopeful and continue with the 2nd and 3rd ATF changes next week, or should I start arranging to sell Jax (my C6)?

Thanks,
Sam
Tjensen   
Fri Aug 01 2014, 01:03pm
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
My tip: take another ATF change. And look for web-sites for owners of more common cars with the same gearbox (Volvo is an example), they have a broader base of solutions and maybe local repair shops in Romania. In Sweden (the Volvo country) they have local repair shops that will handle the gearbox (Citroen will probably advise a new gearbox , way too expensive). But first: more oil changes.
1 User said Thank You to Tjensen for this Post :
 smihaialex (01 August 2014)
smihaialex   
Mon Aug 04 2014, 08:05am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Yeap, tomorrow morning I'm scheduled for the 2nd partial ATF change...

I thought about it and it's somewhat normal that things don't improve that much after just the 1st partial ATF change... I mean, at this point, Jax (my C6) still has more of the old stuff going through his system than the new one...

Did the math and it actually takes at least 10 partial ATF changes until you can say that the mix contains an insignificant amount of the old ATF...

Unfortunately, 10 partial oil changes cost about the same as a new hydraulic control unit, so... I don't know

But here's hoping that after tomorrow's 2nd partial AFT change, things will improve even further...

Thanks for your time and your advice. I'll keep you posted.

Cheerios,
Sam
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