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Adjusting C6 suspension height

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e3steve   
Fri Aug 11 2017, 08:30am
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
HiPOL wrote ...

e3steve wrote ...

Both of mine rock/jiggle a bit, side to side, on some less-than-even road surfaces, and the front end has a tendency to 'fall off' speed humps, with what sounds like the struts reaching full excursion -- again, both of them.

In COMFORT mode, both exhibit the same undulating waft in a straight line; switching to SPORT setting does not affect the comfort of the ride, but merely suppresses the waftiness.


This effect described by you as "strut reaching full excursion" was my nightmare for a long time. I solved it changing height settings. When i was adjusting height following DiagBox instructions my C6 was always standing little too high. Actually not only my, cause i did this procedure in other C6s, and in many cases wasn`t happy with result (too high position). Then i changed parameters "cheating" CSS ECU and finally my C6 was standing in correct position. Ride quality was way better, effect described above is gone now. I don`t remember any other Citroen beeing so sensitive for height setting - margine of error is very, very low.

Must admit that i also drive my car in SPORT mode on bad quality roads. Sometimes i find it a little too soft in COMFORT mode.
Checking parameters with DiagBox while driving i found that in SPORT mode AMVAR valves automaticaly switch to position 6 instead of 1 in COMFORT mode (same driving conditions).
Just like e3steve mentioned , difference in comfort between is SPORT/COMFORT mode is hardly noticable. Can`t say that about other Citroens where difference is bigger. Even C5 X7 which has almost identical suspension is way harder on SPORT mode. No idea why...?



You have my attention! Both my cars appear to sit 'high' at the front end, and the rationale that you describe is perfectly logical to my mind.

I (we, I'm sure) would be interested in learning from you and your DiagBox settings' procedures!
1 User said Thank You to e3steve for this Post :
 321dave (15 August 2017)
HiPOL   
Tue Aug 15 2017, 02:18pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
First of all i recommend trying to adjust height following Lexia/DiabBox instructions. If it fails (too high position) then try to fix it with my method or ask specilaist for help. You can encounter variuos problems (details later) doing it by yourself. If you don`t have any experience in mechanics better find somebody who has and do it with his support.
Procedure is pretty easy if height correctors are not bent. I`ll describe procedure in DiagBox cause this is the tool i use mostly. In my opinion DiagBox is more user-friendly, but i`m sure these instructions can be used in Lexia as well. First try to adjust height in recommended way. At the end of procedure you`ll enter "check parameters" if these are OK for CSS ECU you`ll get message : Adjusting OK and finished. Note these parameters (body height and wheel radius) or you can just use my "universal parameters" .
These are :
wheel radius Front & Rear - R=325 mm
body height front - H=160
body height rear - H=210
No matter how high or low is your car standing if you enter these numbers you get message : Adjusting OK and finished.
Now get the liner or measurinmg tape and check the gap between tire and fender. Correct gap is ~7 cm for 18` wheels (tested various settings, these work best for me)
If front of your car is standing too high even though DiagBox says it is OK, you need to "cheat" CSS ECU typing in false information. If Front H=160 is taken as OK then you need to enter 170 or 180 at the beginning of procedure. After entering data for all 4 wheels you should see sinking front of the vehicle. Then DiagBox will ask you to push the front for height correction and begin check where you are asked to enter parameters again. This time you enter H=160 to satisfy CSS ECU and finish adjusting. Same with rear. It will end up with message : Adjusting OK and finished. Check the gap if its not correct yet - do it again in same way.
It is important to go down (or up)with height slowly (10-20mm). If you go down too much it can cause system error and adjusting fail. If you go with too small numbers - there will be no reaction at all.

Important details.

If height correctors are bent, reading can be out of scale. This can be the reason of wrong adjusting by CSS ECU and it can cause adjusting fail. Thats why using this method i recommend adjusting only one axle at the time (adjusting front you enter R=325, H=210 for rear). When you finish with front, then start procedure again and start changing rear parameters keeping front unchanged (R=325,H=160). This will help you to prevent adjusting fail and even if it appears you know what axle is creating problems and where to search source of failure.
If your wheel radius is different than 325mm, or different in front & rear (weight deflection) - don`t worry. It is important if you strictly follow Lexia/DiagBox instructions, but it doesnt matter if you go for my, alternative procedure.
Remember - if you encounter problems during adjusting - afaik these are always related to bent or broken height correctors.

10 User said Thank You to HiPOL for this Post :
 cruiserphil (15 August 2017) , 321dave (15 August 2017) , e3steve (15 August 2017) , ul9601 (15 August 2017) , eke (16 August 2017) , gmerry (16 August 2017) , Nikola (17 April 2019) , rwb (01 December 2019) , LightMatic (08 December 2019) , Ranger12 (29 October 2020)
HiPOL   
Tue Aug 15 2017, 07:14pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
speedfix wrote ...

IMO. If all fails with correct setups get the car to a main dealer and get a software update.

Suspension software update was bothering me so i did research and here`s what i found.
There are 2 updates available for C6 suspension - ECOTECH and AMVAR. Both updates change suspension profile for little firmer . AMVAR update makes all the difference. It is hard to tell exact date but all informations i got show that since half 2007 all cars have new software version as default. So update is only available for cars older than 06.2007.
Like i said it is hard to find exact date. I asked at Citroen headquaters but they replayed that they don`t have details about software updates, dealers also has no idea about it, usually they don`t even know that such update exists... So i started checking software versions (using Lexia / DiagBox) in all C6s around, and asked other C6 users on Polish forum to check their versions (and production date). Also tried to update my C6 at the dealer, they can check if software version is original or was updated in the past. Putting together all these data i calculated date mentioned above - half 2007.
4 User said Thank You to HiPOL for this Post :
 321dave (15 August 2017) , cruiserphil (16 August 2017) , MarkBevan (16 August 2017) , e3steve (22 August 2017)
ul9601   
Tue Aug 15 2017, 11:13pm
Joined: Dec 14 2014
Member No: #1975
Location: Auckland
HiPOL wrote ...
...
Now get the liner or measurinmg tape and check the gap between tire and fender. Correct gap is ~7 cm for 18` wheels (tested various settings, these work best for me)...

Is this gap (~7cm) the same for both front and rear?
I'm guessing the measuring points are where an imaginary vertical line from the wheel centre intersects the circumference of the tire and the fender?
Cheers
Sam
1 User said Thank You to ul9601 for this Post :
 Lighty (28 April 2020)
ul9601   
Tue Aug 15 2017, 11:16pm
Joined: Dec 14 2014
Member No: #1975
Location: Auckland
HiPOL wrote ...

speedfix wrote ...

IMO. If all fails with correct setups get the car to a main dealer and get a software update.

Suspension software update was bothering me so i did research and here`s what i found.
There are 2 updates available for C6 suspension - ECOTECH and AMVAR. Both updates change suspension profile for little firmer . AMVAR update makes all the difference. It is hard to tell exact date but all informations i got show that since half 2007 all cars have new software version as default. So update is only available for cars older than 06.2007.
Like i said it is hard to find exact date. I asked at Citroen headquaters but they replayed that they don`t have details about software updates, dealers also has no idea about it, usually they don`t even know that such update exists... So i started checking software versions (using Lexia / DiagBox) in all C6s around, and asked other C6 users on Polish forum to check their versions (and production date). Also tried to update my C6 at the dealer, they can check if software version is original or was updated in the past. Putting together all these data i calculated date mentioned above - half 2007.


A dummy question:
So how do you know if your car has the latest updates? If on Lexia/Diagbox, can you tell me how to get there?
Cheers
Sam
vaho   
Wed Aug 16 2017, 06:03am
Joined: Jun 25 2015
Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn
You go to AMVAR and Identification. Old software is: software reference 9662795280, version 6870 and new is: software reference 9665129280, version 710E.
5 User said Thank You to vaho for this Post :
 321dave (16 August 2017) , MarkBevan (16 August 2017) , ul9601 (16 August 2017) , e3steve (16 August 2017) , Tjensen (17 August 2017)
321dave   
Wed Aug 16 2017, 07:16am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
vaho wrote ...

You go to AMVAR and Identification. Old software is: software reference 9662795280, version 6870 and new is: software reference 9665129280, version 710E.


I guess if you have the Software update it would be a similar process to say programming a spare key using diagbox.
vaho   
Wed Aug 16 2017, 07:44am
Joined: Jun 25 2015
Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn
I think it is different because you can not do it yourself. The dealership downloads the software from Citroen servers and into your car. How exactly the process goes I don´t know.
1 User said Thank You to vaho for this Post :
 321dave (23 August 2017)
HiPOL   
Tue Aug 22 2017, 09:06pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
ul9601 wrote ...

Is this gap (~7cm) the same for both front and rear?
I'm guessing the measuring points are where an imaginary vertical line from the wheel centre intersects the circumference of the tire and the fender?
Cheers
Sam

Hi Sam. Yes , i use same gap for front & rear. And yes, measurements should be done just like you described. See attached photo.

4 User said Thank You to HiPOL for this Post :
 ul9601 (22 August 2017) , e3steve (22 August 2017) , 321dave (23 August 2017) , Ranger12 (29 October 2020)
HiPOL   
Tue Aug 22 2017, 09:36pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
ul9601 wrote ...

A dummy question:
So how do you know if your car has the latest updates? If on Lexia/Diagbox, can you tell me how to get there?
Cheers
Sam

Just like vaho wrote, you check every system in the car in the same way - IDENTIFICATION.

In CSS AMVAR important for you number is SOFTWARE REFERENCE - old version is 96.627.952.80, new version is 96.651.292.80

In ECOTECH important numbers are :
EQUIPEMENT PART NUMBER - old version is 96.610.285.80 , new version is 96.612.918.80
and CALIBRATION FILE NUMBER - old version 96.616.187.80, new version is 96.630.287.80

See attached pictures.











8 User said Thank You to HiPOL for this Post :
 e3steve (22 August 2017) , 321dave (23 August 2017) , ul9601 (23 August 2017) , cruiserphil (23 August 2017) , eke (23 August 2017) , MarkBevan (23 August 2017) , LightMatic (01 December 2019) , Ranger12 (29 October 2020)
HiPOL   
Tue Aug 22 2017, 09:47pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
vaho wrote ...

I think it is different because you can not do it yourself. The dealership downloads the software from Citroen servers and into your car. How exactly the process goes I don´t know.


You are absolutely right vaho - it can only be done at the dealership by internet. And only on request. It is not automatic update. I found note about update (see attachment) and started searching for it. To get this update you must go to the dealer, complain about your suspension and ask him to check available updates for your car. In my case it took few hours cause they couldn`t update it and sent email to Citroen Info Center asking for help (it turned out i already had latest version). In standard situation it shouldn`t take more than 1 hour.






5 User said Thank You to HiPOL for this Post :
 e3steve (22 August 2017) , 321dave (23 August 2017) , C6Dave (23 August 2017) , cruiserphil (23 August 2017) , LightMatic (01 December 2019)
Junksleeper   
Sat May 18 2019, 11:30am
Joined: Feb 28 2014
Member No: #1605
Location: Staffordshire
Afternoon all, the suspension on my 07 plate 2.7 exclusive has never been perfect and after replacing just about everything i'm keen to give this ride height reprogramming a go ( well my mechanic guy is!). Does anyone know where to get hold of the measuring gauges as illustrated on the download? ( radius and underframe height measurer) I'm pretty sure the job can be completed without them by improvising but i'm a great believer in right tools for the job and all that. Citroen dealers just scratch their heads and stare blankly when asked but I'm well used to that response by now! Any help would be much appreciated.
ul9601   
Sun May 19 2019, 12:47am
Joined: Dec 14 2014
Member No: #1975
Location: Auckland
you can make them yourself easily as you know what they look like.
i made mine from 3d printing.
like you i was never satisfied with my c6 ride so checked the ride height if it would make any difference but it turned out to be within specs. i had frips and front wishbone bushings replaced amongst other things. i've had a ride in 3 others and they were more or less the same. not sure how many c6s you have sampled but compared to other hydropneumatic citroens, i found c6 ride pretty disappointing.
2 User said Thank You to ul9601 for this Post :
 Junksleeper (21 May 2019) , CitroenMan (11 June 2019)
Kaloteck   
Fri May 24 2019, 01:09pm
Joined: Apr 25 2013
Member No: #1271
Location: Warsaw
ul9601 wrote ...

compared to other hydropneumatic citroens, i found c6 ride pretty disappointing.

uhm… come on... how can it be?
ul9601   
Fri May 24 2019, 08:52pm
Joined: Dec 14 2014
Member No: #1975
Location: Auckland
Kaloteck wrote ...

ul9601 wrote ...

compared to other hydropneumatic citroens, i found c6 ride pretty disappointing.

uhm… come on... how can it be?

Probably best if I re-phrase it - the ride is very good on smooth surfaced motorway type environment at high speed. But mid-low speed pottering around town with undulations/potholes/speed bumps, (granted they are not what C6 was designed for but you have to get to motorway from your home somehow) I found the ride harsh and uncomfortable compared to my other Cits - GSA, CX, XM and even C5.
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