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Gearbox Oil Change

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Author Post
xantiaboy   
Tue Aug 27 2019, 07:08pm
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi all, I recently purchased a 2007 Lignage 2.7 HDI fairly cheaply with 138000 miles, the only obvious issue with it being the less than optimal gear-change which gives a kick sometimes when pulling away and is harsher than it needs to be 1-2 and 2-3 and 3-2 (you get the picture).

I am planning on doing a series of gearbox oil changes over a period of a few months using one method suggested in another thread of changing 3 litres, run for approx 300 miles, then repeat twice.

At the risk of going over old ground I would appreciate members opinion/experiences of which oil to use. For example would it be better to use a semi-synthetic oil like Comma ASW which I assume is close in specification to the original Aisin JWS3309. Or should I use a fully synthetic modern "equivalent" for example Millermatic ATFSP111-WS, (my concern with this being how would it blend with the older residual oil in the gearbox/converter).

I would also appreciate members opinion of resetting the gearbox oil counter. What is the purpose of the counter if the gearbox is supposedly sealed for life? Or, does the gearbox adapt it's shift program as the oil gets older? Or, as I suspect, the gearbox oil counter has no additional function other to record mileage (or something else), and doesn't NEED resetting, thus saving me £100 or so on a Lexia kit from ebay.

Thanks in advance,
George.
1 User said Thank You to xantiaboy for this Post :
 321dave (28 August 2019)
gmerry   
Wed Aug 28 2019, 09:25am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Only use the correct fluid!

Comma sell exactly the correct fluid (friction additives etc).

Don't experiment!

The 2.7 uses a different fluid to the 3.0HDi
2 User said Thank You to gmerry for this Post :
 xantiaboy (28 August 2019) , 321dave (29 August 2019)
Dowen   
Wed Aug 28 2019, 11:27am
Joined: Mar 04 2019
Member No: #3847
Location: Halesowen
Well I used 3309 in my 2.7! I did 3 changes of about 3lt each, about10 miles between.
Good tip is to loosen filler plug first! Cos if you find it won't undo after draining atf you're in all sorts of trouble!
Did not set counter! There was a marked improvement!
Car has done 102000 miles.
2 User said Thank You to Dowen for this Post :
 xantiaboy (28 August 2019) , 321dave (29 August 2019)
xantiaboy   
Wed Aug 28 2019, 08:44pm
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi gmerry, thanks for your comment.

I assume you mean Comma ASW oil for the 2.7 HDI? This seems to be the recommendation on the Comma website.
xantiaboy   
Wed Aug 28 2019, 09:03pm
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi Dowen, thanks for the tip about the filler plug, definitely a problem if you have already drained some oil out.

Which 3309 oil did you go with in the end? (There seem to be a lot of potential options available).

I was looking at Mannol 8218. The cost seems very reasonable on eBay
Dowen   
Thu Aug 29 2019, 08:07am
Joined: Mar 04 2019
Member No: #3847
Location: Halesowen
I used Westways jws synthetic 3309 (ebay)
as I said a marked improvement!I don't think the counter does anything except tell the next service what's been done! (I might be wrong!)
anyway you will need a Lexia!
I bought a 5 ltr container (measured) and funnel etc all in all an easy job.
1 User said Thank You to Dowen for this Post :
 xantiaboy (29 August 2019)
gmerry   
Sat Aug 31 2019, 07:45pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Xantiaboy, yes Comma ASW is exactly the correct oil for the 2.7HDi Aisin Transmission.

- Click Here -

Only Esso can make the correct lube (that includes Esso Brands such as Mobil and Comma)

Ignore any other brands which claim to comply.
2 User said Thank You to gmerry for this Post :
 C6Dave (01 September 2019) , xantiaboy (01 September 2019)
xantiaboy   
Sun Sep 01 2019, 09:21am
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi, just wanted to post an update on my gearbox oil change.

Thanks gmerry for confirmation of spec for Comma oil, unfortunately I didn't see your update until I had finished the job.

Anyway, the main problem I ran into was with the central level plug, it was very corroded and tight, and as I tried to undo it the torx grooves simply crumbled away and completely stripped.

Fortunately I had read another post where a member had mentioned they had a hollow 17mm af key for the drain plug. This gave me the idea of using 17mm af nut, and drill it through 13mm to clear the level plug.

With this in place I was able to undo the drain plug which was very tight. I then measured out the old oil as it drained which was 3.25 litres, then re-filled with the same amount.

This first change has had an immediate effect on the quality of gear change, and while it is not perfect it is pretty good. I plan to do another 2 oil changes in the near future to complete the replacement process of old for new oil.

I have included some pictures of how I managed to undo the drain plug, a picture of the engine sump rot members should keep an eye out for, a comparison of the new and old oil, and an image of the new oil I bought from ebay.










4 User said Thank You to xantiaboy for this Post :
 321dave (01 September 2019) , Tjensen (01 September 2019) , cruiserphil (02 September 2019) , rwb (03 September 2019)
rwb   
Tue Sep 03 2019, 07:47pm
Joined: Dec 22 2014
Member No: #1988
Location: Telford
That's what I use (but I only pay £27 for 4 litres).
- Click Here -
Website
1 User said Thank You to rwb for this Post :
 xantiaboy (05 September 2019)
xantiaboy   
Tue Sep 03 2019, 09:19pm
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi rwb,
I'm not sure what you mean. The ebay advert I posted is £33.99 for 8 litres (2 x 4l cans). You can also get 15% off with included code.
gmerry   
Thu Sep 05 2019, 07:21pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
The ebay stuff might not be the proper Esso lubricant. Not worth saving a few pennies in my opinion.

You definitely need to remove the inner screw from the drain plug (the one with the mashed torx socket) That inner screw has to be removed to set the lubricant level over the internal weir (drip drip drip, engine idling, lubricant at proper temperature).

Every time you do a change you accumulate level errors
1 User said Thank You to gmerry for this Post :
 xantiaboy (06 September 2019)
xantiaboy   
Fri Sep 06 2019, 01:48pm
Joined: Jul 08 2019
Member No: #3978
Location: Bracknell
Hi gmerry, excellent point about the level plug and accumulating level errors with subsequent oil changes. I will look to repair the stripped level plug, however getting the old plug out now will not be a simple task. I then need to find a replacement.

Regarding your point about the "proper Esso lubricant", this seems difficult to quantify, as I have not been able to find any information that any current oil is produced as a direct replacement. Manufacturers don't issue enough details about specifications to make a direct comparison. If you have some evidence of this kind please share.

I had a look at the Comma ASW spec, interestingly this product has a shelf life of 5 years, so does this mean it needs changing when the shelf life is up? If so, how would this be a replacement for the original oil which was supposed to last for life?

All very confusing...
gmerry   
Fri Sep 06 2019, 02:45pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Oil is simple. Only Esso have the patent (secret recipe) for J3309.

Esso own the Mobil brand. Comma is a UK Esso Brand. ergo any Esso, Mobil or Comma will be the real deal.

Mannol3309, really? Probably not even a good copy.

For the level weir, best to get it on the lathe and machine out the setting screw. I drilled an undersized hole, tapped in the next size up torx bit and then screwed it out. Replace with a hex socket screw, much more reliable fastener head in this size.
2 User said Thank You to gmerry for this Post :
 321dave (07 September 2019) , xantiaboy (07 September 2019)
Hattershaun   
Fri Sep 06 2019, 03:32pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire
You can buy the filler & level plugs, along with washers from a Citroën or Peugeot dealer.

It shows on Citroën Service in the gearbox assembly section, then the clutch sub-section ( it means torque converter).

Part numbers 3,4,5 & 6.
3) Level plug - 9806534080 -£28.54 inc VAT
4) Casing plug - 220848 - £1.03
5) Seal for level plug - 220953 - £2.29
6) Seal for casing plug - 220945 -£1.55

Sorry, I can't load the pictures from my iPad.

2 User said Thank You to Hattershaun for this Post :
 xantiaboy (07 September 2019) , cruiserphil (07 September 2019)
Radox   
Thu Sep 19 2019, 06:22pm
Joined: Aug 27 2019
Member No: #4044
Location: Bad Bergzabern
I will also do a gearbox oil change since the "sealed for life" transmission of my 2.7 shifts a little bit too harsh in my opinion. I will be doing the change (or as they call it "refreshing") in an official Citroen dealership. The question is, how exactly do I change the oil in most optimal way? They told me it's not possible to change all the oil at once, but only to "refresh" it with about 3 litres new oil after draining 3 litres from the old stuff. Will this improve my shifting? And must I "refresh" another 3 litres in a few thousand kilometres?
1 User said Thank You to Radox for this Post :
 cruiserphil (19 September 2019)
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