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max. RPM about 3000.

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meliskay72   
Thu Jul 05 2018, 05:42pm
Joined: Mar 25 2014
Member No: #1645
Location: east yorks
My c6 2.7HDi, Lignage, '58 plate (and manufacture), 80,782 miles, has recently come back from my local cit. garage at driffield after a quite ext(p)ensive set of repairs etc. including new timing belt, new alternator/water pump belt, new front discs and pads, new front hubs/hub carriers, track rod ends, ABS sensors, complete new plastic thermostat housing, front suspension hydraulic supply pipe replaced, all necessary fluids, interim service, replaced C.V boot, front n.s; wheel alignment, mot etc. etc.

Now I am finding a "hesitancy" in gear changes (Automatic), a very lethargic rate of progress, and an unwillingness and inability for the engine to achieve 3000 RPM.

I would appreciate any guidance or pointers as to where the problem may lie before embarking on another costly contribution to the garages' retirement pot.

n.b no messages on the dashboard for a clue.

regards, meliskay.
Dave-Retired   
Thu Jul 05 2018, 06:13pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Limiting at 3,000 rpm is usually a sign that the car has gone into 'limp' mode to protect the engine because of a fault.

The repairs at your CIT Dealer (Broach Hill?) should be covered under repair warranty (12 month on parts and 6 months on labour IIRC) so give them a call.
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1 User said Thank You to Dave-Retired for this Post :
 meliskay72 (12 Jul : 17:27)
arconell3   
Mon Jul 09 2018, 08:54am
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
Since your timing belt was changed, the very first thing to check is whether the valve timing is correct!! It wouldn't be the first time that a timing belt change resulted in a ruined engine. In both cases I know of, the garage doing the change (Cit dealer workshops!) didn't use the required Cit tools to do the job... They simply didn't have them available...

Regards, Robert
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2 User said Thank You to arconell3 for this Post :
 meliskay72 (12 Jul : 17:28) , cruiserphil (19 Jul : 08:50)
Pracli   
Tue Jul 10 2018, 07:20am
Joined: May 22 2018
Member No: #3537
Location: Budapest
I had the same problem, and the root cause was weak fuel pressure
I changed the belt for the high pressure pump
Seems to be OK for now
Try to read error codes, may be there is P0193 and/or P1164
2 User said Thank You to Pracli for this Post :
 meliskay72 (12 Jul : 17:28) , cruiserphil (19 Jul : 08:50)
meliskay72   
Thu Jul 12 2018, 05:49pm
Joined: Mar 25 2014
Member No: #1645
Location: east yorks
I spoke to Neill @ Broach Hill about the problem now extant with GF58OUG since its various works, about a week ago. They were (as always), extremely busy, but I arranged to take the car in yesterday, Wednesday. I was advised that they would try to "get on it" yesterday afternoon or this morning, and would phone me with any findings. So far nothing heard, although I have a courtesy car from them (18.40 hrs.) There will be more to follow.
1 User said Thank You to meliskay72 for this Post :
 cruiserphil (13 Jul : 08:30)
meliskay72   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 11:53am
Joined: Mar 25 2014
Member No: #1645
Location: east yorks
Had a call from Neill @ Broach Hill yester evening (16/7 ), 18.16hrs. He advises all previous works are o.k. but fault code readout, (the only one!), 0243; turbo pressure regulator electrovalve errors on turbo 1, which is the rear one. He says the only soln. is a new turbo, as its associated wiring etc. back to the ECU checks out ok (per a cit. advisory bulletin). This is a £1700+ labour+vat hit, and I am now beginning to question whether or not this is a price too steep, given the value of the car. Any serious thoughts anyone please?
arconell3   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 01:27pm
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
It seems somewhat unlikely that P0243 is indeed the only fault code. Simply because if indeed the regulator valve on Turbo 1 is at fault, turbo 2 is still OK. Which means a discrepancy in mass air flow exists between MAF 1 and MAF 2, triggering the corresponding fault code as well....

Having said that, my advice is: go to your dealer, tell them to reset the fault, take the car for a long spin and see what happens. Go back to the workshop and let them make another readout, make sure you get a copy.

Am I being too suspicious? Maybe I am, but it doesn't cost you anything to give it a try.

Regards, Robert


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2 User said Thank You to arconell3 for this Post :
 meliskay72 (17 Jul : 17:45) , cruiserphil (19 Jul : 08:50)
MGmike   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 05:06pm
Joined: May 21 2017
Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry


CP07 has a similar fault which I believe is down to the rear EGR value. Has your garage used a lexia or a generic code reader?

1 User said Thank You to MGmike for this Post :
 meliskay72 (17 Jul : 17:45)
Dave-Retired   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 05:35pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
MGmike wrote ...

Has your garage used a lexia or a generic code reader?

Broach Hill are a CIT Main Dealer with a very good reputation.

@meliskay, If you Google the Turbo part number 0375K£ you can find a part number for a Garrett 723341-0012 (Citroen list them as 'Honywell' but same company) - Click Here -

Googling the Garrett number finds them on Amazon at £396.45 each or eBay at £225! - Click Here -

Me I would buy the eBay one and get it fitted by a non franchise dealer with far lower labour costs....
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 meliskay72 (17 Jul : 18:13)
meliskay72   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 06:11pm
Joined: Mar 25 2014
Member No: #1645
Location: east yorks
Latest update.
1) The garage @ Broach Hill are I believe, cit. main dealers. Their diagnostics are up to date and cit/peug specific.
2) There was another set of readings along with P0243, these being:-
engine ECU, P010F air flow meter signals.
P010E flow meter signal 2 (front)
3) I am now advised that the price of £1700 includes fitting and vat, so I was
wrong there. It does push this years spend over the £4k mark though, so still
some heavy thinking imminent.
4) I am picking the car up tomorrow a.m, and will obtain copies of the various
then.
5) The mechanic took the car up the road today, after clearing all fault codes.
It behaved ok for about 5 miles, then lost its "poke" again. On return to
the garage the P0243 was back.
regards to all.
meliskay72
meliskay72   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 06:36pm
Joined: Mar 25 2014
Member No: #1645
Location: east yorks
To Dave-Retired.
Just my luck, yours of today arrived whilst I was typing my "update". Your notes re the alternatives to a cit.gen part are very interesting and seriously cheaper. I will have to see if I can locate a competent installer, as I suspect it is quite tricky at the back of the engine; also, is part registration in the ECU involved? Many many thanks.
meliskay72
Hattershaun   
Tue Jul 17 2018, 09:15pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Hatfield
Has your car ever had either of the EGR valves changed?

I was a passenger in a 2.7hdi C6 recently that wouldn't rev over 3000rpm & had restricted/virtually no acceleration. Turned out both EGR valves needed replacing. Once replaced normal performance resumed.
I'd say very 2.7HDi will need EGR valves changing sometime, usually between 50-100,000 miles.

1 User said Thank You to Hattershaun for this Post :
 meliskay72 (18 Jul : 11:39)
travlician   
Wed Jul 18 2018, 03:23am
Joined: Jan 22 2011
Member No: #350
Location: Paradera
The turbo electovalve is a know issue to fail. Citroen does not provide the elctrovalve itself and does state it needs to be changed as a complete turbo unit. I managed to get the electrovale off, solder in new wires to the stepper motor inside and has been good so far. There is a batch of these electrovalves (2006-2007) with this issue.
2 User said Thank You to travlician for this Post :
 Dave-Retired (18 Jul : 08:33) , meliskay72 (18 Jul : 11:40)
Dave-Retired   
Wed Jul 18 2018, 08:48am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
If you look at the fault code error sheet you can see what the car does when that code appears but you haven't said that the engine management light comes on the dashboard display?



If you want to see what's involved changing the rear turbo on a 2.7 HDi download the guide: - Click Here - You can also show it to a local garage to see if they are happy to change it for you, or if you want to try and do it yourself.....
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1 User said Thank You to Dave-Retired for this Post :
 meliskay72 (18 Jul : 11:40)
arconell3   
Wed Jul 18 2018, 12:36pm
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
Hi Dave, the document on the EDC is from the 3.0 HDI with Bosch ECU, the 2.7 has a Siemens ECU. However, and as far as I know, it works the same on the 2.7.

Now, before buying any new turbochargers, check the wiring on the variable control, i.e. get the plug off, check for dirty contacts/greasy contacts, clean and put back on. Reset all faults again.

I know, sometimes these control units can fail, but it doesn't happen all that often. And what's more: I am (again) a bit surprised that the fault reoccurred while driving. As Dave's document above will tell you, in line 4, the fault can only be recorded when switching off the engine (dormant mode) and flashed (MIL) when the ignition is turned back on. Which is consistent with the behavior I have seen on a 2.7 with the same fault code.

So, did the mechanic switch off the engine after 5 miles and restarted or did the car go into limb mode, engine running while driving?

Regards, Robert

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1 User said Thank You to arconell3 for this Post :
 meliskay72 (18 Jul : 18:20)
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