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C6 Suspension 'Pitching' |
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ChrisHunter
 
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  Member No: #188
Location: Lancashire |
flat-out on the motorway, in our first CX, once, we had the front-right go flat just as we were passing a long gaggle of lorries, occupying both inner lanes - we had a car behind us, so we had to continue for a mile or more before we could get far enough ahead to slow & transit safely to the hard shoulder ... the tyre was wrecked, but it was a completely drama-free experience ... changing the wheel, on the hard shoulder, was also (of course) pretty painless - worst part was the lorries going-by while we were doing it - a bit close, blowing us about, and rocking the car ! |
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simonpj
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  Member No: #1631
Location: Cambridge |
This was one of the threads I read after buying my C6 a month ago, to try to figure out whether its suspension was performing as intended - so I thought I'd add my experience. I've now had both front spheres replaced. The ones on the car when I bought it (built 2006, 39,000 miles) were at 41 bar and 44 bar (compared to the specified 50 bar). Though the suspension seemed to be ok at speeds over 25mph, I was aware of needing to drive quite deliberately around town in order to minimise pitching - especially over speed bumps, where the car definitely seemed to want to nose dive and rebound off the back edge of the bump, sometimes accompanied by a clonk as the suspension travel bottomed out. The car was also bouncing backwards slightly after coming to a full stop on the brakes - which seemed a clear indication of insufficient damping. Before I'd had the sphere pressures checked by B L Autos I had no idea whether the suspension characteristics I was seeing were just the way the C6 suspension works, or whether they were signs of a problem. My previous experience of the DS, BX, CX and XM didn't help, as the C6 suspension is clearly quite different. Reading the various threads here made me wonder whether the car's suspension software was up to date. B L Autos confirmed that it was - so any problems were just down to the under-pressure front spheres. With the new spheres now fitted the pitching is very much reduced. The front end feels adequately damped and there's no need to drive deliberately over speed bumps and bad town street surfaces to avoid pitching. One other distinctive C6 suspension characteristic - the rapid rocking from side to side that can be caused by irregular surfaces and steep camber on B roads between about 45 and 65 mph - also seems to be reduced. I'm glad to have been able to diagnose that the suspension wasn't working as intended, with the help of this forum, and B L Autos. And very happy to have it working well now. Having come from a car with a radically different type of suspension - a BMW 540i M-Sport which is very low and very stiff - I was quite ready for the C6 to have very different strengths and some real weaknesses by comparison. But I'm actually really surprised at how well the C6 does at hustling quickly along B roads - even though I never resort to the Sport setting on the suspension. I'll post a longer comparison of the C6 and the 540i in a separate thread. Simon |
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ChrisHunter
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Member No: #188
Location: Lancashire |
we found early-on that the sport setting usefully reduced response to blustery cross-winds on the motorway ... otherwise, we didn't like it much ... at least, that was until we'd got really familiar with the car, then we appreciated it more - both suspension & engine sport settings ... as you say, the car s really good on B-roads, and can be hustled along remarkably quickly - and all the more so, in sport mode, when the hang of it is got ! |
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wasted
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Member No: #799
Location: Cambridge |
My local Citroen garage keep trying to tell me that my suspension feel is normal and the software is up-to-date. In frustration, I bought an ebay lexia device and had a play at the weekend. I corrected my ride height as it was out of spec front and rear. It has helped with low speed feel, but I still get some weird, back and forward pitching when on the motorway. I really want to rule out software side of things before starting on the mechanical bits. Can anyone confirm the version, and/or date, of the CSS software update that is supposed to fix this? I need some ammunition to persuade them to actually do something. Mine is version 104.112 and issued 08/12/2006. |
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Tjensen
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   Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
I thought the AMVAR/CSS had serious updates after 2008 and now should be a 2011 version. But I have litttle information on the AMVAR history. Is at a PSA in-house design ? Any other uses of the system ? |
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dsharples
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  Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
Rocking back and forth (like a see-saw motion) over say, the undulating sections found on the northern anti-clockwise part of the M25, sounds like front spheres to me. Probably a corner gone. Spheres are very hard to diagnose on a C6. There is no "fault code" or "detection". Dealers will just say "they all feel like that sir". One test is to brake just before and into "well known" gentle-ish sleeping-policeman/traffic bump (at lowish speed). And then try and crest it at a pre-determined low speed without braking. If you car bounces upwards v.sharply when braking, and mildly less when not braking, it should show you that a) your suspension is working, and b) that your front spheres are shot. The C6 will always "firm up" under braking over a speed-hump - but the ride goes from Comfort to OK with decent spheres, or from OK to F1 car with poor spheres. After 2 years, my after-market spheres were already 30%-40% down, making the ride noticeably poor. My Citroen ones were c.60% down at 5 years old, and one front had failed completely. |
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Hattershaun
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 Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
'Wasted', you may wish to have all the spheres pressure checked, this will tell you how good they are and if replacement is necessary. B.L.Autos, in Welwyn Garden City have the test equipment and knowledge/experience of working on C6 to help you. |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Mr Sharples, your experience on the spheres sounds similar to mine. I found that Monroe aftermarket spheres had a very short life (but useful in an emergency). What brand of aftermarket spheres have you tried? Regards G |
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wasted
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Member No: #799
Location: Cambridge |
Good advice, chaps. Bizarrely its the newer roads where it is most obvious - a perfectly flat new road is somehow converted to a gentle headache inducing rocking. It just cant seem to find its equilibrium. I will to do some road testing and head down to BL Autos. I'm also determined to get Citroen to update my CSS ECU version and i'll post back the new version number. | ||
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dsharples
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Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
I tried the Suplex Ones. In just under 2 years, the rears were at approx 70% pressure, the fronts 60%. The original Citroen after c. 5 (maybe 6) years were: 1 front failed, 1 front 40%, rears 60%. (The car had stood around for a year before being registered). So what can we conclude? In contrary to Citroen/dealer/expert claims: * Grey Saucer Spheres do (undetectably) fail on the front of a C6 < 6 years. * Grey Saucer Spheres do degrade on C6's at the front by 10%+ year They are not "good for life". And: * Dealers won't replace them as they can't diagnose them, so very hard to use any warranty you have (my dealer said they had never replaced a grey sphere under warranty on a C5 to underpin their position). I even took the lead engineer out (who I know fairly well) and the sales director (whose car it used to be) - and whilst the latter thought it didn't feel like it used to, the lead service technician (who is usually excellent) stuck to his position (feels fine mate) * Your ride is compromised once 30-40% of the pressure is gone - but it happens very gradually... and you only notice when you get odd body motions. I'm now running with two new Amtex front corners, re-gassed Citroen Accumulator, and re-gassed Citroen rears (as supplied via Pleiades). |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Dave, very informative post. I'm running on a right old mixture right now:- Front corners are IFHS, Front Stiffness is Citroen Rear Corners are original Citroen. Rear stifness are Monroe (Citroen were replaced due to external corrosion). Rear corners overdue to be replaced. Previously, I was not aware of the Pleaides option of recharging but not sure of the logistical practicalities and how long I would want the car off the road. I have had one front corner (Citroen failure = internal spikes having puntured the diaphragm) at less than 4 years old post date of car manufacture, one very flat Citroen stiffness accumulator, others were unknown pressure. Note, for Citroen C6 with AMVAR suspension, all spheres are accumulators since there is no damping at all in the spheres Secondly, I'm assuming your "engineer" was a mechanic or service technician. If he was indeed an engineer, we would expect to get a system and/or mathematical analysis of the issues. Regards G |
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Kaloteck
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 Member No: #1271
Location: Warsaw |
You mention wallowing... But it is what big Citroens are all about, isn't it ? Why would anyone want to correct that  ?
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Hattershaun
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Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
Waft - Yes, i.e. Isolate passengers from road undulations and bumps, feels very smooth Wallow - No, implies undesirable movements. I've experienced this, it's not good. A bit of semantics perhaps, but just my humble opinion after 20 years of driving Citroen hydropneumatic cars. |
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
Had a look at the 2.2 hdi suspension today as the car had to much rebound going over hump back bridges, no amvar fitted on this model. Ride height settings to high so scribed markings on the level sensor clamping to antirollbar as the original datum points.[so I new the original start points] Adjusted the front first to a lower position, then the rear to get the car level. Double checked after going through the height positions [lds tank cap slackened] Car now sits and rides like a citroen should at speeds. Did not need it seems to use the lexia for this but time will tell! Also the service reset can be reset without the use of lexia, I have lexia but the old laptop takes to much time for just a small job. The only job to do after a few more runs is the tracking front and rear in case the alignment has changed. |
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Cojko
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 Member No: #5015
Location: Koper |
Spheres Citroen original My Citroen -35% = 82€ not avalibale Spheres Eurorepar, membrane like Citroen original = 115€ avalible Spheres IFHS, good replacment for original, diferent membrane = 70€ avalible Citroen services have new update for CSS! Now I have compleatly new C6, driving like - Click Here - |
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