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2.7HDi V6 Auto Gearbox Jerky Shifts

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C6Dave   
Tue Jul 08 2014, 08:01am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
artisan100 wrote ...

Does anybody else find that the first drawing in the download is corrupted, or is it just me?

Yes it is. Give me an hour or so and I'll try and get a new copy uploaded.

EDIT: all sorted with a fresh copy.
Website
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 artisan100 (08 July 2014)
gbl   
Sun Jul 13 2014, 07:05am
Joined: Jul 06 2012
Member No: #936
Location: Copenhagen
FYI: You will need a TORX 40 bit for the level plug, a 17 mm hex key for the drain plug, and a TORX 55 bit for the filler plug.

On my 2.7 HDi I was able to get to the filler plug without fully removing the air filter box. Just remove the air filter box mounting screws and the rear large hose clamp. Then the air filter box can be pushed forward and you can ease the TORX 55 bit in position with a couple of long extensions. I refitted the filler plug by sticking it to the TORX 55 bit with some blutack and then carefully eased it down.
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 smihaialex (01 August 2014)
darrell   
Sun Jul 13 2014, 07:11pm
Joined: Oct 30 2011
Member No: #699
Location: Hampshire
I've started getting similar symptoms - when accelerating, there is half a second of "engine braking" before it changes up, a bit like, in a manual car, not depressing the clutch pedal soon enough when coming off the accelerator for a gear change. There is also sometimes a bit of a snatch, changing up and down, which seems to get worse after prolonged urban driving.

A couple of times recently, between 2nd and 3rd I think, it revs to about 4000, followed by an almighty clunk.

So, should I get the oil changed, which might cost £200-£300 in labour by the time I've had 3 partial changes done, or should I head straight for an auto-transmission specialist for all the diagnostics, etc?
gmerry   
Sun Jul 13 2014, 10:59pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Darrell, multiple partial changes are betted suited to DIYers where the cost is just the AWS fluid and new seals.

If paying for a change, you should really find a transmission specialist who can do a flush. They will need to disconnect the cooler and plug in the inlet/outlet to the machine. This way, you should get about 95% fluid change in one go.

In terms of diagnostics after this, it depends on how familiar the auto shop is with this particular transmission. I think you will find the dealers are clueless and lack any specialist equipment.

A change of fluid will restore the friction levels to what they should be. it won't reverse any wear that has taken place within the control valves.

Regards
G
darrell   
Mon Jul 14 2014, 12:44am
Joined: Oct 30 2011
Member No: #699
Location: Hampshire
Thanks, G.

The guys at the garage I use are ex-Citroen main dealer, and the multiple change is the standard Citroen procedure, so I'm not surprised the dealers would be clueless apart from that. Interesting that Citroen have a maintenance protocol for a supposedly "sealed for life" gearbox!

I was wondering about the flush option - I will make enquires at auto-box specialists, there seems to be one in Portsmouth and a couple in Southampton.
Kaloteck   
Mon Jul 14 2014, 12:55pm
Joined: Apr 25 2013
Member No: #1271
Location: Warsaw
darrell wrote ...

Interesting that Citroen have a maintenance protocol for a supposedly "sealed for life" gearbox!

This is common, I think only Japanese manufacturers emphasize that it should be done.
smihaialex   
Mon Jul 14 2014, 01:05pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Unfortunately Citroen's OEM ATF JWS 3309 is IMMENSELY expensive here in Romania coming in at about 50 GBP per liter

So for a complete flush of 7 liters, I would need to fork out 350 GBP, or actually 400 GBP because it comes in 2 liter bottles.

Or, for 3 partial flushes of 3+ liters each, I would need to fork out 500 GBP (10 liters)...

What do you recommend I use instead?!?

I found this: - Click Here -, this: - Click Here - and this: - Click Here - on OpieOils...

or, do you have something else in mind... Someone above was mentioning Esso

Thank you.

My best,
Sam

PS: @darrell, yes, that's exactly how my car behaves also... Started a couple of months ago, but it was under control up until a couple of weeks ago and now, basically after a while in traffic it is undriveable
gbl   
Mon Jul 14 2014, 06:25pm
Joined: Jul 06 2012
Member No: #936
Location: Copenhagen
It's not only in Romania that Citroën is listing an outrageous price for the JWS 3309 oil. They must hold a world record in price mark-up for this product....

If the oil manufacturers you are linking to are trustworthy, and they claim their oil is meeting the JWS 3309 specification, then you should be fine with these.

You can also try your local friendly Toyota dealer and ask for their T-IV automatic transmission fluid. JWS 3309 and T-IV are equivalent, and many Toyotas and Lexuses are using the T-IV fluid.

Market size really affects the price of this oil: A case with 12 quarts (approximately 11.4 liters) of Mobil JWS 3309 can be purchased in the US on for instance Amazon.com for 45 USD. That's 4 USD per liter...
smihaialex   
Tue Jul 15 2014, 10:09am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
But guys, what do you think about this one: - Click Here - ?!?

Thank you.

Sam
gmerry   
Tue Jul 15 2014, 12:21pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
No No No...

just meaningless marketing references.

Do not use anything that is not produced by Exxon (Esso, Mobil, Comma in the UK) as it is critical to get the friction additive correct.

I have tried alternative fluids with "superior" basestocks and they do NOT work very well at all.

As already mentioned, this is a common fluid used by Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Saab, Volvo. There should not be a problem getting the correct fluid at a reasonable price.

In the UK, Comma ASW is widely available and at a reasonable price.

Regards
G

Note Intercars Romania has the Comma ASW1l listed for 66.34RON. Is this about £17 for 1 litre? try this link - Click Here -
smihaialex   
Tue Jul 15 2014, 01:36pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
But G,

This is a Champion brand and it is listed as an official alternative to the OEM ATF for the Citroen C6 specifically in the inventory tool that part dealers use...

I also found Comma ASW for 50 RON/litre, so that's 9 GBP/litre, but I think that there's no reason not to give this one a try as well...

I mean Comma is a semi-synthetic and Wolf is a full synthetic... Do you think that this will be a problem?!?

To be honest to me both Wolf, as well as Comma are completely unfamiliar brands - I had no idea they existed, so I can't say I really trust any of them - marketing-wise, if I wanted a brand I could trust I would have gone for Mobil or Castrol, but after countless forum posts read, it seems that people who used Mobil didn't like it - made their autoboxes feel slow - slower than before, that is... As for Castrol, I think that it's more suited to the C6 3.0 HDi Euro 5 because it is JASO A1 rather than JWS 3309, even though Japanese standards are said by some to be backward compatible so...

But I don't know... For the time being I ordered the Wolf... Do you think that I should cancel the order and go for the Comma?!?

Update: I canceled the order for the Wolf ATF and ordered the Comma ASW ATF - in 3 days it should be here... The phrase that convinced me was "Specific to Aisin-Warner automatic transmissions" where as the Wolf is a "Multivehicle ATF". I don't really believe in Jack-of-all-trades type solutions. Plus, I trust you guys - G & Steve, and you both recommended Comma ASW ATF, so thank you very much for your advice, time and patience...

Thank you.

My best,
Sam
gmerry   
Tue Jul 15 2014, 04:28pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Sam, I think you are on the right track.

Comma, is just a marketing brand for Exxon (Esso in the UK) whom as far as I know, are the only people licensed to manufacture '3309, or maybe '3309 is Exxon's own proprietary ATF fluid, that was offered to Aisin when they developed the 6 speed boxes, who knows.

The Synthetic versus semi-synthetic is a bit of a red herring. More important is the friction additive to get reliable shifting and minimise wear (a slipping clutch will generate a lot of wear particles). But the fluid will wear out and must be replaced on a programmed basis.

Anyway, looks like you have got the right fluid at a fair price.

G
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 smihaialex (01 August 2014)
Tjensen   
Tue Jul 15 2014, 07:23pm
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
Can someone explain the new requirement AW_1 for EURO 5 (=2009-2012)
eke   
Wed Jul 16 2014, 08:21am
Joined: Sep 16 2011
Member No: #624
Location: Oulu
Tjensen wrote ...

Can someone explain the new requirement AW_1 for EURO 5 (=2009-2012)

Aisin-Warner has apparently made some changes to AM6 gearbox in 2010 when EURO 5-motor came to C6 (and some other cars). If you have EURO-5 motor, you cannot use JWS 3309 oil.

I have read that from Peugeot forum discussion (in Finnish, but maybe you can use google translator): - Click Here -
dsharples   
Sat Jul 19 2014, 11:16am
Joined: May 18 2010
Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge
Many GM/Vauhall/Saab cars use the AWTF-80 SC transmission variants.

Saab traditionally recommended 93160393 JWS 3309 MINERAL OIL (for all vehicles post-2002). Certainly in an 2007 Saab with the 6 speed this was always used...

- Click Here -

(This fluid fully complies with Citroen's JWS 3309/ESSO recommendation - and is what I've been using in the C6....)

However, I now see that recommendation has changed to GM's 93165147 MINERAL OIL (for all vehicles with a AF-40 6 speed automatic).

- Click Here -

I don't know the GM specifications for these fluids, but the various Saab forums are full of debate - just as ours are...

1 User said Thank You to dsharples for this Post :
 cruiserphil (19 July 2014)
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