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When to change the oil in the C6 auto gearbox? |
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mark28
 
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  Member No: #102
Location: Hampshire |
Chris where did you get yours done | ||
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Chris Burmajster
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   Member No: #81
Location: South East |
mark28 wrote ... Chris where did you get yours done Ray Williams of Burnham. He's on the Slough Trading Estate and has been doing a good job of looking after my C6 since the warranty ran out. He's a well known independent Citroen specialist and drives a CX. Tell him I recommended him! 239 Berwick Avenue, SLOUGH, SL1 4QT 01753 576853 - Click Here - |
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cruiserphil
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   Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Lads, Ordered Amsoil from Opie as recommended by G. They deliver to Ireland which is grand as I couldn't track down the spec. here. Did an oil change at the weekend and it went as per instructions. I'll do a second change next weekend but notice the difference already in smoothness. Feeling more relaxed now about the transmission as it was a job I wanted to get started on for a while. Regards, Phil C. |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, probably will do the partial change or a single drain/fill cycle once per year (around 3 litres) at the same time the engine get fresh oil. Really pretty simple to do and easy to set level with the inner plug removed from the drain tube. Key thing is to measure how much is drained off. Then replace equal amount. Then get transmission up to temperature, and with the engine idling, remove the inner plug (to check the fluid level over the internal weir). Don't make the mistake of checking the transmission fluid level with a cold autobox or the engine stopped. The cost is just the cost for the oil and a washer, no filters on the box. Regards G |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi, list of seals and washers for the job of ATF (partial) drain and refill:= Description Citroen Number Filler Plug Seal (that's the M18 plug on top of the box) 2209 46 Main Drain Seal (thats the M20 plug on bottom of box) 2219 23 Level Setting plug O ring (M8 fits within Main Drain Plug) 2209 45 If there is any difficulty obtaining the citroen parts, copper washers of 18mm ID, 20mm ID, and a Viton O ring with 8mm ID would subsitute for the above. I suggest the Level setting screw (M8 x 1.0 metric fine with Torx head) part number 2208 48 is replaced at each service. Lastly if there is any problems removing the level setting screw, use a hollow 17mm hex with an internal counter bore of 13.0mm which allows one to remove the complete drain plug "oil outfall" and then deal with the inner screw on the workbench. Regards G |
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Gjo
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In my garage I got this question. Not only for the C6, but also for the C5. I have studied it and bought a machine which machines can refresh. For AM6 I made an adapter. I'm now about 3/4 years and have many good experiences already gained. If you find someone who is also such a device, I can send photos. Of course you are also welcome in the Netherlands, it's just a long drive - Click Here - |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Annual Transmission Oil change completed for 2013. This time, I replaced the level setting screw (torx head) with a M8 x 1.0 metric cap screw with an internal hex. Screw length is 9mm+0/-1, underside to end of screw. Much deeper internal hex than the torx equivalent so this should reduce the problem of rounding off the head. A viton O ring 2mm x-section x 7mm ID provides the seal. 2.7 Litres was the amount drained. A tip here is to replace with 3.2 litres when refilling as the procedure says that 500ml must be added to allow for checking and setting the level. It's a good time to replace the air filter and wash out the filter box including salt deposits and blocked rubber drain as all that gubbins must be removed from the engine bay to access the filler plug on top of the box. Is a yearly part change of the transmission fluid overkill? Well fluid cost using Comma AWS was about £32. A few quid for the O ring seal. The fluid smelt fresh but certainly had lost its fresh red colour and had colour / haziness that indicated a level of wear contamination. A particle counter on a sample might be a good idea. Gearbox changes are very smooth at all load /speed conditions except if stopped in traffic in a steep upwards facing hill. Then there is sometimes a very small snatch in taking up the drive. Regards G |
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arconell3
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  Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar |
Actually, I had mine done in the Netherlands by Johan Oldenhage, he owns an authorized Citroen workshop/dealership. See his post above, from Dec 2nd, 2012. He flushes the box, i.e. the old fluid is pumped out and at the same time the new fluid pumped in, engine running. That way all the fluid is refreshed including the bit that otherwise remains inside the converter. For me, residing in Germany, it was a 100 mile drive (one way) but well worth it. This flushing system is also even officially recommended by Mercedes and BMW for their auto boxes. So plenty of places in Germany for flushing German cars but nobody has the right adapters for doing French cars. Another point is: you should really reset the oil wear counter in the TCM (Lexia). The TCM reacts to the "wear" of the oil by adjusting the hydraulic valves and actuators which operate the gearshifts. Also you can reset the adaptive memory of the TCM. In which case a couple of rides, letting the box switch through all its gears frequently, will relearn the box how to shift smoothly again. Robert |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Obviously a full flush is superior to a partial change (or even multiple partial changes). My understanding is that the cooler at the front of the transmission is unbolted and that the adaptor plate from the flushing machine is bolted to the transmission in its place. As well as proximity of an auto service shop with the proper equipment and adaptors to me (Aberdeen Scotland), I would be looking for assurance that the autoshop was using the correct fluid - Esso 3309 - and also that their equipment had a proper fluid cleanliness management system in place - (regular filter changes, control of contamination from other customer's cars, particle counts etc). From what I can see of the annual partial changes, I am on top of bulk fluid degradation but probably not on top of wear particle contamination. The usefulness of resetting the fluid wear counter would probably be pretty minor in this case. Regards G |
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nickyg
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 Member No: #100
Location: Tyrone |
gmerry wrote ... Annual Transmission Oil change completed for 2013. This time, I replaced the level setting screw (torx head) with a M8 x 1.0 metric cap screw with an internal hex. Screw length is 9mm+0/-1, underside to end of screw. Much deeper internal hex than the torx equivalent so this should reduce the problem of rounding off the head. A viton O ring 2mm x-section x 7mm ID provides the seal. 2.7 Litres was the amount drained. A tip here is to replace with 3.2 litres when refilling as the procedure says that 500ml must be added to allow for checking and setting the level. It's a good time to replace the air filter and wash out the filter box including salt deposits and blocked rubber drain as all that gubbins must be removed from the engine bay to access the filler plug on top of the box. Is a yearly part change of the transmission fluid overkill? Well fluid cost using Comma AWS was about £32. A few quid for the O ring seal. The fluid smelt fresh but certainly had lost its fresh red colour and had colour / haziness that indicated a level of wear contamination. A particle counter on a sample might be a good idea. Gearbox changes are very smooth at all load /speed conditions except if stopped in traffic in a steep upwards facing hill. Then there is sometimes a very small snatch in taking up the drive. Regards G G, hello again, may I ask what prompted your discovery/usage of Comma oil this time? I know we are not the only community to debate the usage of the Amsoil atf (the oil you previously used, and a popular choice) but I had decided against using as, when reading further into the whole issue throughout t'internet, there were too many reservations held by some people who seemed to know their stuff. Not to preempt your answer but would I be in the ballpark if I said you had found out the Comma you sourced to be the OE spec Esso? Thanks Nicky |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Nicky. The first time I did this job I used the Amsoil ATF and while it is probably a very good oil with a very high resistance to degradation, I was not convinced that the changes were "right" and that the clutches were doing their thing with the (in)correct friction modifier. After I changed back (partial change) to Comma AWS, it seemed perfect. Comma is actually a brand owned by Esso so I am 99.9% convinced that Comma AWS is the correct Esso (Exxon) lubricant as specified by Aisin and Citroen too. It's also readily available and reasonably priced in the UK. Personally I think the box problems stem from wear particle generation. Ideally a bypass very small micron (say 2 micron) filter system should have been fitted as part of the design. As I still have 5 litres of the Amsoil stuff, I'm inclined to use that as a flushing fluid. Regards G |
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markp
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 Member No: #1746
Location: Somerset |
FYI: I've just changed the auto gearbox fluid on my 3.0 petrol C6 that only has 48,000 miles on it. I used Gulf ATF of JWS 3309 spec from Opie Oils. Well worth doing: The changes are much smoother now and the gearbox is a bit quieter too. I'm extremely happy. Took the opportunity to replace some of the undertray fasteners at the same time: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152056442171 - but I actually need two of those packs, so not quite completed this. I did a drain (2.9 litres) and then added 3 litres, drove it a little, then another full drain (approx 3 litres but I didn't measure it) and then refilled with another 3 litres. Thereby replacing 61.2% of the original oil with new oil (box holds 7 litres, first change removes 3 litres of old oil, then (on the second change) you leave 4/7ths of the 4 litres of old oil leaving you with only 32.7% (2.29 litres) old oil - which is 4/7ths of 4/7ths. Which is 67.3% new oil. I think that that is right! I had enough oil to do it once more, but then I would be fighting dimishing returns! |
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markp
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Member No: #1746
Location: Somerset |
Further to my immediately previous reply on this thread... I have just reset my "oil wear counter" from 1,326,302 to 600,000. When doing this the screen tells you that the only purpose to change the counter count is when replacing the ECU (when you should carry across the old value to the new ECU). I assume that they do not talk about resetting that counter because you are not supposed to change the gearbox oil? Rather than zeroing the counter it seemed to make sense to reduce the count according to the amount of new oil now in the gearbox. This is very approximate, as a mix of old and new oil doesn't have the same properties as an original fill of oil that was new and has gained a particular wear count. |
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