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Level Switch for Coolant Reservoir / Degassing Tank |
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e3steve
 
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   Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Here's what I have:  and here's where I'm losing coolant from:   
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Photo of Float switch |
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cruiserphil
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  Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
E3Steve, If it's under the butterfly housing it's the coolant (thermostat) tank!!! Regards, Phil C. |
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smihaialex
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  Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest |
1. A float switch is useless, because, unlike let's say the brake fluid, the coolant level fluctuates due to the rise in temperature that leads to pressures regularly reaching 2 bar, which makes the level in the tank go down significantly (hence the term: expansion tank)... 2. Some cars have the thing on top of the expansion tank, some don't (in fact most don't), but the ones that I have seen and that do have it, also have cables leading from it (saw this in a Peugeot 407, for instance), which makes me think that, if your car has nothing attached to it, maybe either the tank has been replaced with a second hand spare from a Pug 407, or there was some malfunction with the sensor and the service engineer 'fixed it' with a pair of pliers... 3. Having had both the corroded pipe, as well as the blown thermostat casing, what I can say are these (facts only): - the car is able to function with less than the full ~5.5 liters of coolant (I wouldn't recommend it, but it can - mine ran for ~3 months with lower than normal levels until I realised I had a problem and had it fixed (it took 3 months to get from full to almost empty and display STOP engine temp too high message); - the car will show increase in coolant temp if coolant level is not ok, so if you have concerns regarding the cooling, just have the NaviDrive in Trip Mode and have it serviced if displayed temp goes up (I wouldn't bother with fitting a level sensor); Just my £0.02  Cheerios, Sam |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Another shot of the float switch installation. |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Thanks, all, for your input. It seems that the 'stat "tank" failure is a known problem, then? I've found many comments, after Googling keywords, and it appears common. The Jaguar installation of the 2.7 engine has a modification that employs an alloy ass'y but, apparently, the hose arrangement differs enough to make it unusable for us PSA-ers. Bummer.... When I saw the Cartier sensor in the header, I immediately thought that the PO may have had low-coolant issues and had disconnected it. But it didn't concern me, having thought further, as dis'ing a 3-wire sensor would produce a fault indication. Also, I lifted out the header tank and searched for the dis'ed connector; no sign of such, so I gave it no more thought. Removing the surrounding components doesn't look to be too traumatic a task, so I'll make a start, hopefully, this evening. Stay tuned, pop-pickers! 
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
The Cartier unit with a float and warning ability placed inside the expansion tank saved my XM V6 several times. It warns you if 1. the coolant suddenly drops 2. It has gradually decreased to a dangerous low level. In the case of 1. this is very important because low or non-existing coolant will not circulate and get hot enough to trigger a warning. Then the oil-temperature warning is our only hope before damage in the C6. | ||
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cruiserphil
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Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
I have to say lads, I like G's float switch solution. The wiring intrusion is minimal. Unfortunately I believe the Cartier switch will also need a positive supply wire (if it's the same as XM which it looks like!)if you want to retrofit a 407 tank. I believe this is a must have modification. Regards, Phil C. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
On a bit of a tangent to the float switch. I needed some new coolant to complete the installation so tried to purchase some BASF G33 coolant. It appears that BASF only supply this to PSA exclusively and it is a OAT silicate free coolant, but with a blue/green dye. BASF also supply direct to the aftermarket (via Comma in the UK) G30 coolant which is "the same thing" but with a purple dye and they recommend this as suitable for Citroen and Peugeot. I guess they should know as it's their coolant. So we have a choice!! Regards G |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
I'm beginning to think that une personne ou deux high up within the Citroën design hierarchy needs tarring & feathering for his/her/their oversight in the omission of a coolant level warning! I've just followed, from beginning to end, member Chevrons' overheating story. What utterly rotten luck! And I could be in the same bateau, as I had no idea there was a problem with my cooling system until I was warned of 'low oil pressure'. I then flipped screens over to Vehicle Monitoring and observed the oil temp was increasing; then, whilst at a standstill in traffic, the motor died and wouldn't restart, but just cranked slowly and flashed the speedo graphics as though the battery was very low! Needless to say I'm now pooping my knicks a bit, although I've not yet observed oil in the coolant or vice versa. I can feel a trip to Citroën's head office brewing. I'll drive the damned car through their front doors as a protest...... 
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
esteve, hope you have been lucky and survive this one. the problem seems to be lack of development engineering for the thermostat housing, maybe to do with V engine configuration, that is the root cause. for interest, I have added a link for the Cartier level sensor patent EP0907070 - Click Here - regards G |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Once again, thanks to you all for your input and kind words. I'm not quite feeling the love for Citroën themselves right now, but that's soon to pass. I just adore the C6 but just can't help thinking to myself that it's hardly surprising how values plummet instantly, once their half-hearted attempts at manufacturing leave the showrooms! Such fantastic innovations, jury-rigged alongside such poor attention to detail.... All will become clear, if you haven't already found out for yourselves. I obtained a shiny new "coolant output housing" -- fifty nine quid from my local Citroën dealer -- and decided to get down & dirrrty this evening. All would've gone pretty well if most of the lumpy & tubey bits in the way hadn't decided to disintegrate before my very eyes. I barely had to touch anything and... Oh, another bit's broken! I didn't even raise an eyebrow at the task ahead (many thanks, Cruiserphil, for the documentation!), let alone my voice. I didn't shout at the underbonnet area; neither did I curse nor swear! I'm now into replacing the three tiny (brittle!) plastic tubes that traverse the butterfly housing; they, all three, snapped off at the point of entry into the rubber coupling tubes. I also now need to replace the entire fuel return assembly, which runs from the "coolant/oil heat exchanger", via a curl of jacketed tubing, through the "fuel temperature sensor" and to the front and rear cylinder banks' injectors. Each of the three entry/exit points from/to said "fuel temperature sensor" snapped off in unison! Grrrrrrrr! The engine's copious ancillaries, harnesses and pipes have completely eaten three of the spring clips which retain the return unions in the injectors -- one from the front bank and two from the rear. This happened in spite of probing the work area with a strong Snap On magnetic pickup tool whilst prising the clips from their comfy beds. I'll get a dozen, just in case..... Bear in mind that I still love this car (teeth gritted....). There are other things I could mention, but I sense that you're all glazing over. So, first thing I noticed was that there seems to be a fair sheen of oil within the 70mm diameter-or-so riser hose which attaches to the "air conduit" which, in turn, attaches to the butterfly housing. Is this normal? The second alarming discovery can be seen below: Rear bank "air distributor"  Front bank "air distributor" after vacuuming  andwhat we scraped out of the butterfly housing  Oddly, the EGR valve pipes seem pretty clean, and the clips that retain the unions between the pipes and the butterfly valve's unions' flanges appear to be original. Well, that's the story so far. Let's see what else I can break off when I start putting the fuel system back together, hmmm? I daren't risk going for a pee......  EDITED in blue |
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Tjensen
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Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
We must learn form your problems: What is causing clogging and dirt to gather in the air distribution system ? In the simple old times, that would have been backfiring or in the not-so-old times leaks and problems in the engine crankase ventilation system, allowing oil deposits into the system. It should have been nice and clean. | ||
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eduardomaio
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  Member No: #869
Location: Lisbon |
This week was my turn with a broken thermostat and again suffering from the poor Citröen service. In the back of my mind I was always thinking why I didn't go for the Lexus GS450h instead, at least their customer service is splendid.  Anyway, I was lucky, I got a strong smell of hot coolant and immediately checked the water level. Poured about 2,5 liters and found that when the engine was hot water would drip. I suspected the thermostat was the culprit, as I have read so many stories in here, especially the topic from Chevrons. Makes no sense that such an expensive and top of the line car is missing something so trivial as a low level coolant sensor. Another funny thing I found out, one of my HID bulbs is out (giving a pink colour), no warning on Navidrive, but when I plugged Lexia into the car I got an error about a failure in a HID bulb 
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, I would like to work up an option using the Cartier sensor as found on some 407 variants. The patent has a pretty good description of the sensor operation, I now realise that the sensor has the electronics incorporated so much simpler than I had thought. So needs an external 12v supply, a ground and will switch a signal current. Pretty much what Phil said all along. I would appreciate anyone with superior electronic skills to me to advise:- -circuit impedance for the signal - I'm going to start with say enough resistance to limit this to say 50mA. This will set the control voltage. -source for the 3 wire plug (other than scappie, PSA use a lot of their own stuff) -current for oil pressure switch - note I can measure this with high impedance digital multimeter. 10.3mA I'll probably use the Cartier low level signal to drive a volt free contact - thinking here of a solids state relay - and use that to switch the oil pressure sensor to ground. All sensible comments on the electronics gratefully received. G |
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