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Suspension Sphere - Availability and VFM |
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gmerry
 
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   Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, decided to work my way through the spheres until I find the culprit faulty ones. Basic logic is to change out the two front (50 bar) spheres because access is easy, then the front regulator (stiffness sphere 70bar), then the two rear stiffness spheres (40 bar) and see how I go. I will have to send the spheres off to confirm which is/was faulty. Best supplier I have found so far is - Click Here -. I'll let you know if/when the order turns up. Regards G PS, parts man tells me they sell loads of grey saucer spheres, all much less than 10 years old. Apparently the saucers have an internal spike to rupture the diaphragm if/when the sphere loses any pressure. |
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cruiserphil
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  Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
G, Thanks for the posting on this. The point about the internal spike is interesting. Explains the rumour that you cannot simply recharge a depressurised sphere. I like the idea though because at least it highlights a failing sphere. With the older type they would bleed off slowly and it could take quite a while to realise that your suspension was not optimised. By the way, a thought about the failed sphere: the failed sphere should be completely full of LDS (due to the ruptured diaphragm) when you remove it and therefore lead to much more spillage than an intact sphere. I'm not familiar with the orifice size in the neck of sphere to allow draining but worth watching for. Are you ordering all the spheres in one go or doing it in stages? Regards, Phil C. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Phil, will try and take note of how much LDS spills with the different spheres (or how much they weigh?). Am I replacing all the spheres? Yes and no. There are 3 different sphere types on the 6 cylinder C6s (all 3 six cylinder cars use the same spheres) and I want enough parts on hand to do the job in a oner without waiting for parts. However I'm only buying two spheres for the rear as the stiffness spheres are ther same as the rear corner spheres (and I can't imagine that all 4 have failed) The 2 front corner spheres and 2 rear corners spheres are costing me pretty much the same amount as one off front stiffness sphere. The difference is the corner spheres are coming directly from the manufacturer and the front regulator sphere is coming via Citroen spares so you get some idea of markups. Think of an old Xantia sphere and multiply the cost by about 10 and you get some idea of what it costs. Also to be borne in mind that it is probably a good idea to replace spheres in axle sets to keep the suspension the same side to side. Regards G |
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Gobxoy
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  Member No: #786
Location: Essex |
Hi have you tried these people in Wales, Yorkshire? - Click Here - SUPLEX UK Ltd. Unit ‚E‘, Vector 31 Waleswood Way, Wales Sheffield, South Yorkshire, S26 5NU Tel. +44 (0) 1909 770 660 Fax +44 (0) 1909 774 177  Clive......gobxoy |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Clive, good tip re Suplex. They cover the whole Citroen range, very helpful and good prices. Citroen Hydraulic trivia: did you know that the M36 x1.5mm thread standard for the spheres is backwards compatible from current Citroen models all the way back to the DS (didn't check for Traction rear suspensions). Regards G |
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Gobxoy
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Member No: #786
Location: Essex |
Glad to be of service did you ask for Citroën club discount? Good one on the triva ardly suprising, why would Citroën have mutiple freds one fred fits all. Anyone want to play with larger spheres or different presures to tune the suspension (only joking) Clive......gobxoy |
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drummond
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  Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh |
Well, they were fitted to the Traction 6H, but they were not all the same, unlike the aftermarket ones. When the LHM came in, in 1966, the spheres went from black to green, and aficionados swore that the ride became harder. Also, all (most?) of the DS spheres were two part; the single piece came in with, I believe, the CX. My original GS (1971) came with two part spheres. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hey this must be a real Citroen discussion, spheres! G |
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C6Dave
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 Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Interesting that the 'Suplex' part list indicates that the 2.2's use a different sphere to the rest of the C6 range The other factor is that LDS according to Suplex has a life expectancy of 5 years or 200,000 km's and is designed to reduce friction in the hydraulic system, so any car built up to and including 2007 may need the LDS changing I wonder if that will help the 'ride' issues some are reporting. |
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drummond
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Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh |
Ha! Thanks, Dave. Didn't see that in the Suplex list. All Citroen fluids need changing after some years; the LHS and LHS-2 used on the DS up to 1966 were immensely hygroscopic and needed changing every two years. When Total produced the LHM (green) fluid for the '67 model year, it was said that it did not need changing, as it was a mineral fluid. It did, and garages used to change it when it went to a dark green. The ride improved a bit. (well, quite a lot, actually...) I can't see why the LDS should be any different. And I think that the French supermarkets have started to stock LDS, which might inform the answer! Spheres, Tim |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Dave, good spot on the 2.2 Spheres. As previously posted on the first thread "Hard Crashing Ride", all the 6 cylinder cars use the same spheres. The 4 Cylinder cars have a much simpler suspension with the damping elements incorporated into the spheres, just like Citroens of old (mechanical damping elements). The 6 Cylinder cars have electronic adaptive damping via the separate-to-the-spheres external dampers (note the electrical connector on the top of the "struts" adjacent the spheres on the front suspension. So in the long run, the 4 cylinder cars will be much cheaper/easier to maintain. Also, looking at the Suplex catalogue, all the spheres used on the 6 cyclinder cars are unique to the C6 except the front stiffness regulator which is common to the "new" C5 range (2009 onwards). Personally I take the 10 year, 200,000km maintenance free statement from Citroen (original press release for the Hydractive III+ suspension) with a large dose of scepticism. |
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Chris Burmajster
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  Member No: #81
Location: South East |
gmerry wrote ... Personally I take the 10 year, 200,000km maintenance free statement from Citroen (original press release for the Hydractive III+ suspension) with a large dose of scepticism. So when would you recommend the spheres and LDS be changed? The problem here is that degrdation is gradual. My car will be 5 years old next month and has covered 44,000 miles. I haven't noticed any deteriation in the ride quality. Chris |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Chris Burmajster wrote ... gmerry wrote ... Personally I take the 10 year, 200,000km maintenance free statement from Citroen (original press release for the Hydractive III+ suspension) with a large dose of scepticism. I haven't noticed any deteriation in the ride quality...... Chris That is a problem when you own and drive a car regularly. Any deterioration will be gradual and you probably won't notice it unless you drive a much newer car to compare against. My car has a lower mileage than yours at circa 27,500 although coming up to 5 years old. I'm happy with the ride, but coming back from the eye hospital as a passenger, with my eyes closed (pupils had been dilated for the examination so the bright light was not pleasant) I could feel a difference compared to actually driving the car. Nothing dramatic, but an underlying sensation that's hard to describe (and could be in my imagination) but I will probably consider changing the LDS next year |
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travlician
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 Member No: #350
Location: Paradera |
With the chances of a leak on the C6 is there really a need to change the fluid? OK, a bit synical but I did change the fluid (after a leak in suspension cylinder) completely and there is a minor change in ride quality. The fluid was a lot darker then the new one. The car left the factory 5 years and 3 months ago... | ||
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Chris, do you mind if I answer your question once I have identified the faulty sphere and cured the problem. I have a hunch it is going to be the front stiffness sphere which runs at 70 bar (higher diaphragm stresses than fronts which are 50 and rears which are 40 bar). Of course, access is tricky for this sphere as it lives underneath the Hydractive reservoir/Electric pump. Regards G |
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