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[%*^#@!] ball joints again |
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Ped
 
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   Member No: #82
Location: Maidenhead |
OK I have the car back. Slough Citroen have replaced the bearing and the ABS sensor. It's fine now, which is a relief. Very impressed again with the level of service from them, despite my grumpy last few days. They really are a good garage - they did the ABS sensor really cheap and hardly charged any labour on it for me. All told, I paid about £350 for the bearing and the sensor. Happy ped. ped |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Winus, check out the SKF website - Click Here - and press the demo buttoms for the animations. It gives you a good idea of how the CARB bearings work. From the links I posted, the main external differences are in the sealing arrangements Regards G |
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drummond
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  Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh |
So, were the CARB bearings OE, and if so why have they failed so early? They look like (in terms of axial and rotational) Bulleid's valve gear design for the Leader, for British Railways, in 1948. That did not work! |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Drummond, we have the problem with sealing allowing water ingress (probably salt water if you live in scotland). I also have a bit of problem with the bearing housing in that I can't yet figure out how it can be pressed on (or tapped on) to the pivot housing without transmitting the fitting force through the outer race and hence brinnelling the bearings. Anyone have a view on this? Regards G |
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citrohanc6
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  Member No: #329
Location: utrecht |
Gerry, is this of some use? - Click Here - items on sealings are also to be found on the site thanks for the link. The demo's speak for themselves. clear. |
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citrohanc6
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Member No: #329
Location: utrecht |
gmerry wrote ... Difference between SKF Lower "Ball Joints" and after market replacements. Hi all, a lot of the so called Lower Ball Joints are in fact just deep groove ball bearings in a similar housing to the real thing. See - Click Here - as an example. I purchased one of these (curiosity) and in fact its a 6205 2RS bearing (probably bearing costs about £5) which has been modified by boring out centre to 27mm diameter. A standard 6205 bearing is 25mm. Seems as though all those 407s with worn out front suspensions have resulted in some creative re-engineering. Note that the genuine bearings are CARB bearings: these allow for some axial float and angular misalignment. They should look externally at least a little more like - Click Here - Regards G Some deeper digging on this, thank you for the link Gerry The oem part you show as an example from ebay , the genuine (see above), seems to be the old type CARB bearing: 3640 72 was replaced for part no. 3640 69 starting at orga no.10983 and the old sealing that prob. caused the ingres was replaced for 3623 26 since orga no. 11071 the old type sealing is as a matter of fact disparu from the part list. Winus |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Here's a link to a good write-up for replacement of the lower "ball joints". For Peugeot 407 but essentially the same on a C6. - Click Here - |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
On subject of making these wretched bearings regreasable in service, I've come up with the following. -centre "cap" thickness of steel casting is only 3.2mm, ie too thin to directly screw in a grease nipple. -welding or brazing on the bearing assembly will destroy the seals due to heat. -with a very small amount of spot facing and use of a rivetbush, a 5mm depth of M6 thread plus original 3mm would create adequate thread for a M6 grease fitting. - the bearing assembly should ideally be fitted to the pivot with a bearing anerobic adhesive (Loctite) to provide a seal and stop any corrosion or galling relative movement see link for drawing of a rivnut bush. - Click Here -  Any thoughts? Regards G |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Could be a plan for the more technically able G |
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Ocellia
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 Member No: #583
Location: Bristol |
I recall the (rear?) bearings on CX weren't greaseable, but someone worked out you could drill them for a grease nipple. Pity I shed all my Citroenians! |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Ocellia, some of the grease fitting retrofits are required for pure lubrication issues - Nissan Skylines and Imprezas - and to reduce friction/stiction in plain bearings, especially where urethane or "poly" bushes are involved. For the C6, the general feeling is a that having the ability to regrease in-situ would expel water and contaminants and hence significantly improve component life. Not familar with details on the CX, was it down to water ingress? Perhaps one to post in the Lounge Regards G |
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citrohanc6
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Member No: #329
Location: utrecht |
Though the bearings were considered better than the cx' rear bearings i retrofitted grease nipples in the rear needle bearings of my xm back in 1999. The main objective was iirc to lubricate once a year the bearings with 3 or 4 strikes fat to prevent them from drying out and to form a greasy surface so the Nissan impreza issue. The rear trailing arms are some sort of cast lightweight alloy so drilling 5.5mm. and let the grease nipple form its own tap did the job. Until now no problems (but the car is run down anyway) @ gerry, your proposition of a grease nipple is quite appealing. I suppose installation isn't an upside down job in situ? |
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cruiserphil
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 Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
cruiserphil wrote ... Ped, Not trying to worry you but perhps it may not be at such an early stage?? See what they diagnose and keep in mind this from one of my posts on the Lower Suspensio Bearing topic. On another note, though, the local garage informed me to watch the lower bushing in the pivot carriers as they have replaced two on a C6 at 90000km. I don't know what kind of Irish roads it frequents. The bad news - the bushing is not available separately due to the way it is fitted. The whole carrier has to be replaced and the carrier costs of the order of €300. So one for members to watch although don't worry until/if it happens. I have a clunk on the front of the 06 car on braking which was there before I replaced both lower suspension bearings and after. Suspension bearings were worn anyway. I'm going to be checking tomorrow to see if I can locate it and am conscious of above. Regards, Phil C. Well I finally got to check out the clunk last weekend. Both lower wishbone rear bushes are shot. Braking and brake release provokes it. Apparently, the bush does not come as a separate piece. You replace the complete wishbone. So one to keep in mind. Will update when I get to do the job. I'll order the parts tomorrow and take it from there. Regards, Phil C. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Citrohanc6, I don't imagine drilling in-situ would work: the issues are preventing swarf getting into the bearings and punching over the inner side of the rivnut bush. All operations should be do-able on the bench / with a machine tool. Regards G |
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citrohanc6
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Member No: #329
Location: utrecht |
@ Gerry, do you think a precautionary "finger" molybdeen fat or Fluid Film or whatsoever applied from the outside will have any effect concerning the ingress of salt and water in the ball joints? |
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