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Replacing glow plugs on a 2.7 HDI

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321dave   
Sun Feb 28 2016, 09:16pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
e3steve wrote ...

Dave, two or three of mine sheared when I changed them out. I then had to drain off coolant and remove the oil filter and the coolant output tank in order to gain access with my own extractor, the use of which required removal of the bonnet to allow enough room to use my "slide hammer" on the front bank's glowplug!

I had to drill out the insulators with with a 5mm drill, then tap an M6 thread into which I screwed an 80cm length of studding, then I fashioned the slide hammer affair using a hollow, hefty tube -- in fact an old Kokusan m/c starter motor stator & housing from one of my old Hondas!

Once drilled and threaded, I soaked each sheared glowplug with a copious drenching of release agent and left the sodding lot overnight (while my overheated headspace cooled off).

Incidentally, since you're draining the coolant anyway (to replace the water pump) it may be a good idea to replace the output tank ('stat housing) while you're "in there", if you've not already done so, or if you don't have documented assurance that it was replaced within the last 40 or 50k miles.


Hi Steve, many thanks for those great insights into what will be coming my way very soon (a very big headache). I believe at least 4 of the 6 glow plugs aren't functioning, but it still starts fine, but has the cold roughness initially because it's not post heating properly after startup or so I'm assuming.

I'm not fully prepared yet to tackle a bad job here so I'm going to get an extractor kit this week. I read back through the forum and you bought NGK glow plugs I think as replacements? Were they fine or did you have any others preferences.

Incidentally, on a different post in another thread you mention a very brittle fuel return pipe to the injectors which is also in the general area? I'm sure I'll break it if it's breakable so I'm going to order those pipes or junctions as well. But I'm not entirely sure which bit to get yet? iPad picture upload not working again it seems.

e3steve   
Sun Feb 28 2016, 11:43pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Yes Dave, I bought the NGK glowplugs. I trust NGK products!

The fuel return pipe ass'y is a one-piece affair, about 8mm OD and sleeved with grey nylon braid; it links all the injectors and runs from both front and rear banks, meeting at the fuel temperature sensor which nests in the Y-split of the throttle butterfly and atop the coolant output tank. !! in this image:





You should be OK as long as you don't try to bend the damned thing out of the way, as I did(!). It 'loops' over each of the throttle butterfly's outlets in order to join at the fuel temp sensor (red connector).
frozenbeard81   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 01:45am
Joined: Feb 05 2016
Member No: #2503
Location: Bagshot
I saw the pre heat symbol briefly the other day. Almost forgot i had a diesel
321dave   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 08:22am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
e3steve wrote ...

Yes Dave, I bought the NGK glowplugs. I trust NGK products!

The fuel return pipe ass'y is a one-piece affair, about 8mm OD and sleeved with grey nylon braid; it links all the injectors and runs from both front and rear banks, meeting at the fuel temperature sensor which nests in the Y-split of the throttle butterfly and atop the coolant output tank. !! in this image:





You should be OK as long as you don't try to bend the damned thing out of the way, as I did(!). It 'loops' over each of the throttle butterfly's outlets in order to join at the fuel temp sensor (red connector).


Thanks for that help Steve, I guess I'm just wondering now. If I'm careful with it all should be ok. I'm thinking you had to bend it out of the way? Your suggesting to lift up but not to the left or right (if that makes any sense)
e3steve   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 09:09am
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Yes Dave, your question makes perfect sense. And yes, you should be fine if you're careful with handling the ass'y.

I think I was a bit heavy-handed in trying to clean off the oily mess left by the filthy, black O-rings as I extracted the butterfly from the air boxes!

I lifted the fuel temp sensor up too far. That was my first mistake. One of the pipes snapped off at the sensor! Then, as I traced the pipe to the front bank's first injector, it snapped off there too. B u g g e r! Of course, by that point, little did I know that it was well beyond any redemption...

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Prising out the clips and extracting the unions from the front bank of injectors is straightforward enough (once you've removed the injectors' high pressure lines); but the rear bank is a whole new ball-ache.

Then, as the clips ping off and are consumed by that Bermuda Triangle a.k.a. "The Garage Floor", you start to question whether or not to push the car out of the garage, down the drive and into the middle of the road and just set fire the feckin' barsterd ar$ehole thing and be done with it...
321dave   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 09:45am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
e3steve wrote ...

Yes Dave, your question makes perfect sense. And yes, you should be fine if you're careful with handling the ass'y.

I think I was a bit heavy-handed in trying to clean off the oily mess left by the filthy, black O-rings as I extracted the butterfly from the air boxes!

I lifted the fuel temp sensor up too far. That was my first mistake. One of the pipes snapped off at the sensor! Then, as I traced the pipe to the front bank's first injector, it snapped off there too. B u g g e r! Of course, by that point, little did I know that it was well beyond any redemption...

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Prising out the clips and extracting the unions from the front bank of injectors is straightforward enough (once you've removed the injectors' high pressure lines); but the rear bank is a whole new ball-ache.

Then, as the clips ping off and are consumed by that Bermuda Triangle a.k.a. "The Garage Floor", you start to question whether or not to push the car out of the garage, down the drive and into the middle of the road and just set fire the feckin' barsterd ar$ehole thing and be done with it...


Lol!! Steve
gmerry   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:05am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Hi 321Dave and others, I'll be using high temperature Loctite Silvergrade anti-seize when I get around to doing mine, here's the datasheet:-

- Click Here -

In the meantime, I note my preheat symbol now comes on for every cold start whereas previously I only ever saw it at -5 degrees or so. Is this a sign that most of them have already failed?

Regards
G
321dave   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:16am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
Just thinking, is there anything else that could go wrong Steve? That's about it in the engine bay for the moment
321dave   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 05:39pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
Hi G, would copper grease be ok if the silver anti-cease product wasn't available yet? Or would it be best to use that instead of the copper grease?
321dave   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 08:55pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
Hi Steve, seems the price of NGK plugs online are up and down a bit.
I found these on eBay earlier. Do these appear correct to you. Spec seems ok reference wise.
€24.50 each on mister-auto site and £12 on eBay here.

- Click Here -
e3steve   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:30pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
That's the type, Dave. YE12 (7794). I paid £79 for a set of six.
e3steve   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:49pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
321dave wrote ...

Just thinking, is there anything else that could go wrong Steve? That's about it in the engine bay for the moment
I s'pose a tsunami could engulf Dublin whilst your car is in bits...

The coolant inlet can be a leaky little git -- ask Phil -- as it can weep, but you can't see it. A real challenge to change out, especially while working in cold conditions. Alternator off; a/c pump off (not necessarily disconnected from the hoses though) but, once again, the cooling system will already be drained down and the undertray and, sensibly, the front bumper will be off, plus the o/s/f wheel is off and the arch liner removed, which makes you already 30-40% into the task.

Well, you did ask!
e3steve   
Mon Feb 29 2016, 11:05pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
gmerry wrote ...

Hi 321Dave and others, I'll be using high temperature Loctite Silvergrade anti-seize when I get around to doing mine, here's the datasheet:-

- Click Here -

In the meantime, I note my preheat symbol now comes on for every cold start whereas previously I only ever saw it at -5 degrees or so. Is this a sign that most of them have already failed?

Regards
G

Best to separately test their resistances -- 1.4R per --, Gordon, which involves pulling off the snap-fit busbars. "Snap" in more ways than just how they make contact! The plastic insulators which encase the cables and the push-fit assemblies are quite brittle (quelle surprise...).

I used my DMM, on 'current' mode, as a power hookup from the jump start stud to each glowplug in turn; I seem to recall that four of them weren't drawing any current at all. They should draw 3 - 4 Amps each.
321dave   
Tue Mar 01 2016, 01:15am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
e3steve wrote ...

321dave wrote ...

Just thinking, is there anything else that could go wrong Steve? That's about it in the engine bay for the moment
I s'pose a tsunami could engulf Dublin whilst your car is in bits...

The coolant inlet can be a leaky little git -- ask Phil -- as it can weep, but you can't see it. A real challenge to change out, especially while working in cold conditions. Alternator off; a/c pump off (not necessarily disconnected from the hoses though) but, once again, the cooling system will already be drained down and the undertray and, sensibly, the front bumper will be off, plus the o/s/f wheel is off and the arch liner removed, which makes you already 30-40% into the task.

Well, you did ask!



Thanks Steve, bought the two tanks (outlet and inlet tanks ready to replace them a few months back but got stalled at the rad leak issue when initially headin for the timing belt), might as well go for it this time round, even though it's not an easy job as you say to get at, but I'll be almost in there bar a bit more dismantling. Incidentally I rang the garage to investigate weather these tanks might have been serviced under previous owner(s), but no joy in getting any feedback. So I decided, best to air on the safe side and change it all out now anyway.

Your advice and help to the forum is making all this hassle far to easy Steve
321dave   
Tue Mar 01 2016, 05:23pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
Hi all,
i was looking around the web today before purchasing 6 NGK glow plugs and i spotted this box!
They appear to be BERU as OEM for Citroen. From what i could find anyway.
Steve were the glow plugs you extracted intact Beru by any chance?





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