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C6 Auto Gearbox Trouble. |
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black_exclusive
 
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  Member No: #126
Location: The Fens |
Evening Chaps, Dad's got a bit of gearbox trouble with his C6 - it's a 2007 2.7 V6 HDi. The symptoms of the gearbox are as follows: When driving through town areas and the C6 is up to warm temperature, between changing from 2nd to 3rd gear it revs up violently and then changes into gear. Also, if you were to then stop and select reverse, there would be a delay...and then a very violent jault into reverse. He's just had it scanned and it came up with the code 21301 and it's an unknown code. It has been previously scanned at the Citroen Main Dealer and no codes came up at all. It has had the Citroen Software update. Any ideas on this? Thanks in advance. 
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C6Dave
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    Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Someone at C4owners has posted something similar happening to their car and the consensus so far is that it's an issue with an 'electrovalve' in the gearbox and maybe software related. Has this only started happening since the software update? |
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black_exclusive
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Member No: #126
Location: The Fens |
Thanks for the reply Dave. C6Dave wrote ... Has this only started happening since the software update? ...nope, happened before so the update was done to try to cure it but it didn't! |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Try and find a good Autobox specialist. These boxes are pretty common fitment to Volvos, Fords, Mazdas etc. I've been told that the control valves are susceptible to wear debris. You could also speak to the spares importers to see what parts are usually required. Regards G |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Had a post at C4owners where a car was sticking in 3rd gear and a response was: HoneyMonster wrote ... On other makes that i have had experience with, a slightly low oil level in Auto box can make this occur on sweeping bends. Then the box puts itself into a limp home mode setting as fluid flung away from centre. Stopping and switching off then restarting is enough for fluid to level. So it may just need a slight top up as i say have seen this before on supposedly sealed for life boxes and often only needed 100ml of fluid. So has anyone checked the level on the gearbox? Plus this is in the owners handbook:  So are there any warning lamps coming on? |
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black_exclusive
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Member No: #126
Location: The Fens |
C6Dave wrote ... So has anyone checked the level on the gearbox? Evening Dave, I was going to post about the gearbox fluid anyway!! Yesterday, the fluid was changed and the old fluid was a deep black colour. It was then scanned at there place and no faults came up. Dad said that upon driving back home (~10 miles) it was fine and he even went purposely round the houses and even when warm it wasn't playing up. He honestly thought it was fixed!  BUT...upon nearing home and moving off from the closed railway gate...1st......into 2nd......and big rev up into 3rd. Back to it's usual self!  gmerry wrote ... I've been told that the control valves are susceptible to wear debris. That is interesting G, as the chap that did the fluid change also thought this and has put a special additive that will hopefully clear it. Fingers crossed 'eh?!!
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Has there been any resolution to the problem? | ||
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black_exclusive
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Member No: #126
Location: The Fens |
Unfortunately not, Dave.  Dad is learning to live with it now though. As soon as he's entering a built up or stop start traffic area (when the car/engine is warm), he puts it into Manual Gearbox Mode and changes gears himself. This is the only way to get around the 'problem' and he allows it to rev up higher than it normally would and then change up gear. We think that this allows for a higher pressure build up and doesn't make the 'problem' occur. Motorway cruising though - it's awesome. 
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Wojtek
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  Member No: #588
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Hello, because I’m having the same problem I will add something from me. Unfortunately it seems the problem won’t be easy to solve and cheap. As for now I’ve been in Citroens authorized service and they said that this could be the problem with the hydraulic block and the part will cost me 1500PLN (320£ it’s ¼ of my salary so to me it’s quite a lot) of curse they will charge me extra for replacing the part. They didn’t even check it with a computer. Citroen also claims that the gearbox is maintenance-free and you don’t have to change the oil... when I heard that I reached a conclusion that it will be better to search for another service. In the next service that specialises in repairing automatic gearboxes guy sat down on the drivers place and drove a few laps on a road near the service. I will add that they also didn’t check it with a computer. After he finished he stated that the max cost of the repair will be from 5000 to 6000 PLN (almost 1300£) because probably they will have to change the clutch transferring ring, clutch pads and others (unfortunately I don’t know how to name other parts in English) eventually they want to do me complete gearbox overhaul and as I know polish services even if it will turn out that this is something small and like for example an electric valve that could cost less they still will charge me max price because on the beginning they sad that the repair may cost so much. Fortunately my friend gave me contact to a guy that will check me how the hydraulic block works with a computer (pressures etc.) I’m going to him tomorrow. In the first two cases they said that the oil change won’t solve the problem. Will see what will be tomorrow. @Black exclusive. As or me I found out a little bit better temporary solution. When the gears are changing with a delay you can notice it because the engine rev up what you can hear and see on the counter. When the rpm goes up you have to take your foot on a moment just a sec from the gas to let the engine rpm drop down at this time the gear box has time to change the gear and when you put your foot back on the pedal you accelerate normally whit out any problems I’ve found out that this is a common problem with AM6 gearbox also in C5. |
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Ocellia
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 Member No: #583
Location: Bristol |
Makes me think "I'll stick with my Lexus LS400!" I LOVE Citroens, but I also love peace of mind! I'm looking on this site regularly as I'm tempted by a C6, but the Lex is so (touching wood as I type!) reliable there's no logical reason to change. Until I have to fix things maybe, and even then....so you do on any car this size! Tyres are cheaper than C6. It's less complex -no tyre sensors etc. The idea of an autobox having a 'common problem' doesn't encourage me! |
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Wojtek
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Member No: #588
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I think that this “common problem” is caused by Citroen claiming that you don’t have to change the oil. Yes maybe you don’t have too and everything will be fine by the warranty period but sooner or later it will break down when warranty will be over and you will be forced to pay them for the repair. Maybe I’m wrong but it looks like that for me. | ||
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
@Ocellia The auto gearbox is Japanese manufactured and used in a wide range of cars, not just the C6 
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black_exclusive
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Member No: #126
Location: The Fens |
Wojtek wrote ... @Black exclusive. As or me I found out a little bit better temporary solution. When the gears are changing with a delay you can notice it because the engine rev up what you can hear and see on the counter. When the rpm goes up you have to take your foot on a moment just a sec from the gas to let the engine rpm drop down at this time the gear box has time to change the gear and when you put your foot back on the pedal you accelerate normally whit out any problems Very true Wojtek - dad does this too. As I posted above, try Manual Mode... Ocellia wrote ... The idea of an autobox having a 'common problem' doesn't encourage me! Not that common! Ours and Wojtek's are the only ones known to have the fault at the moment... 
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Wojtek
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Member No: #588
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Bad news. As for now I’ve been in 3 workshops specializing in auto gearbox and every one said the same. Changing the oil won’t do any good and it’s almost certain that this is a mechanical problem. The oil temp is reaching almost 200C so it suggests that there’s a problem with slipping clutch pads what could be caused by problems with hydraulic pressure in the gearbox. The pressure is to low so the clutch pads don’t stick together as they should so the friction increases the temperature.It’s better not too drive with such fault because you can do more damage and the repair will be more expensive One guy said that they are installing extra oil radiators because now very often in the new cars the original radiators are not enough and lowering the temperature by 10C can give up to 50 000miles more than a gearbox with standard radiator |
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robin-hood
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 Member No: #377
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Maintenance free auto gearbox is a non sense idea. As for engine oil, it MUST be changed. I have a gasoline c6 with much less torque, but I live in a very valloned country and when I decided to change the oil at 50000 kms, it was very dark already ! So imagine on a hdi model that makes a lot of city driving...hydraulic block quickly fails due to valve body full of fluid material wear. Sorry for my english. If anyone doesn't want to know this problem oneday (when it will appear it will be too late), change your gearbox oil every 30 000 kms with JWS3009 compliant oil. With that the sensible valve body block will enjoy clear oil, as for clutch bands...especially for hdi owners for which this problem appears more easily. With new oil at 50000 kms, my gearbox returned to its original smoothness when changing gears especially when downgearing like 3 to 2 or 4 to 3. Any oil wears with time, lost its properties and become "acid" and futhermore charged of material wear from clutchs that pollute the valve body. i recommend a change every 30 000 kms or 2 years maxi. On mine i will re do the oil change after one year and 15000 kms to optimise the new oil proportion as only 4 of the 7 liters are drained, 3 old oil liters remains in the converter and annot be directly drained. Hope this will save some gearbox... Robin. |
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