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C6 with a weird combination of error messages
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C6Dave   
Sat Apr 16 2011, 05:59am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
 I haven't changed the switch yet, but now, it's sometimes difficult to move the selector from 'park' unless the brake pedal is pressed a couple of times.

That again points to the brake pedal switch, so I have finally ordered one.
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C6Dave   
Thu Apr 21 2011, 12:22pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
 I had the switch changed today, the part (453467 Switch Kit) cost £25.82 inc Vat so will see what happens over the next few weeks.
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gmerry   
Thu Apr 21 2011, 01:29pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Dave, I trust you will keep us updated. My cruise control briefly worked again last week, but shortly afterwards failed...wonder if for £25 I should just change the brake pedal switch and see what happens. The steering wheel controls were replaced with new last year but it never really effected a cure.

Regards
G
C6Dave   
Thu Apr 21 2011, 06:31pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
gmerry wrote ...

Dave, I trust you will keep us updated. My cruise control briefly worked again last week, but shortly afterwards failed...wonder if for £25 I should just change the brake pedal switch and see what happens.

Absolutely G, I will provide feedback.

I actually had it replaced at a local dealer (my knees couldn't take the work I'm afraid following some DIY at the weekend)

They wanted to do a diagnostic but I declined as that costs more than simply changing the switch and loom (it's a 'kit')

IF the fault comes back then I will have no choice but to get a diagnostic done, just to confirm it's the rear ABS unit which is the 2nd in line suspect as to change that is a far larger job.
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C6Dave   
Wed Apr 27 2011, 10:38am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
gmerry wrote ...

Dave, I trust you will keep us updated. My cruise control briefly worked again last week, but shortly afterwards failed...wonder if for £25 I should just change the brake pedal switch and see what happens. The steering wheel controls were replaced with new last year but it never really effected a cure.

OK 1 week on since changing the brake pedal switch and wiring (it's a kit) and the car has behaved impeccably. No weird warnings, no issues getting it from park to drive etc. etc.

Looks like it's all sorted.
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cruiserphil   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 07:12am

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Lads,

While replacing the lower pivot bearing on the front right pivot I could not salvage the ABS sensor. So the car is presently running without the right front ABS sensor.

As a result I get the ESP & ABS fault warning and Handbrake Faulty. In addition the handbrake does not operate. When I started up the car after repair, the hanbrake released on the button but would not apply again. Any time you operate the button the handbrake faulty message appears.

It appears the handbrake system relies on a fully functional ABS system. Presumably it relies on a speed signal to inhibit accidental application at speed? I'm confident replacing the ABS sensor (which I hope to have this week) will sort it all out. I'll let you know.

Regards,

Phil C.
michaelb   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 07:28am
Joined: Nov 17 2009
Member No: #14
Location: London
cruiserphil wrote ...
Presumably it relies on a speed signal to inhibit accidental application at speed?



That would be nice to know. I've always worried about some ham-fisted passenger accidentally applying the handbrake while searching for something. Given that it is a "full or nothing" switch that would be a scary thought at speed.
gmerry   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 09:06am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Phil, is the handbrake faulty message coming up when the car is stationary.

One would hope that even with a disabled ABS or faulty ABS sensor it would still allow one to apply the EMERGENCY brake with the car at very low speed or at standstill!

Regards
G

PS thanks for the PM. Had a look under the suspension and there is quite a lot of clearance on the bottom of the lower pivot bearing, possibly enough to be able to get a greasing point to fit in there.
ciao_chao   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 10:29am
Joined: Jun 15 2011
Member No: #518
Location: Buckinghamshire
 Well I've had the same ABS/ESP/Handbrake error before, and I've had no problems applying the handbrake despite it. Just apply the handbrake with the door open and you'll hear it operating.
citrohanc6   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 12:55pm
Joined: Jan 02 2011
Member No: #329
Location: utrecht
 In addition; has anyone ever tried to operate the handbrake at speed?
Isn't this mentioned in the manual (mine is french) to obtain a slowdown?
C6Dave   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 03:06pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
citrohanc6 wrote ...

In addition; has anyone ever tried to operate the handbrake at speed?


Sorry, but I'm to frightened to even think about that, as it it went wrong, there could be a very big bill!
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cruiserphil   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 04:28pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Lads,

In this particular case the handbrake will not apply. You hear the motor operate to apply and then you hear it release again. When you start the car, ABS faulty appears first, followed a few seconds later by ESP warning, both accompanied by the ABS warning and skidding car yellow icons which remain on. After several seconds, handbrake faulty appears for a few seconds and the P in triangle yellow icon lights and remains lighting. If you forget and attempt to apply or release the handbrake, handbrake faulty appears and is accompanied by the red circular brake fault icon which flashes for several seconds and then goes out. The hanbrake button red lamp does not light at any stage.

I hooked up Lexia to have a look at faults and this is how it reads:

ANTI LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM

"Permanent Fault - Front RH wheel speed sensor signal electrical fault open circuit, short circuit to positive, short circuit to earth."

ELECTRIC SECONDARY BRAKE

"Remote fault - Permanent fault - No communication with ESP ECU incorrect value received."
"Fault caused by another ECU."

TRANSMISSION FAULT

"Remote fault - Permanent fault - Front wheel speed information transmitted by electronic stability program ECU (ESP) incorrect value received."
"Remote fault - Permanent fault - Information transmitted by the dynamic stability control (ESP) ECU incorrect value received."
"Fault caused by another ECU."

VARIABLE DAMPING

"Permanent fault - Dialogue with the ESP ECU no communication."

Interestingly enough, if you test the handbrake using Lexia it applies and releases normally with the button lighting to confirm application.

C/C, as regards your observation, there may be faults with the ABS system that will still allow handbrake operation. In my case I have a failed sensor (because I damaged it!!) and now I have the non operational handbrake. Hopefully I will have the replacement sensor for the weekend to fit and then hopefully I can confirm the direct link.

Regards,

Phil C.
verycleverman   
Wed Sep 21 2011, 07:09pm
Joined: Mar 08 2010
Member No: #65
Location: Northumberland
 Just guessing here, but when I was researching the parking brake, with a view to replacing the rear pads, I seem to recall that applying the park brake above a certain speed would cause all the brakes to slow the vehicle, switching over to rear brakes below that certain speed. It would make sense for the system to rely on a functioning ABS, if it were a 'ON/OFF' set-up, to prevent the relevant wheel locking up. After all, there is still the option to leave the gearbox in 'park'.

Pete.
cruiserphil   
Sat Oct 15 2011, 07:46pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Lads,

Apologies for delay in following up on my posts here. I just got to replace the damaged ABS sensor today. (I've had it in its bag for the last three weeks!!!).

Well just to confirm, with the replacement sensor fitted, I started the car. All fault alarms cleared and the handbrake works again. So that's that for the record.

Regards,

Phil C.
grandadmark   
Thu Aug 16 2012, 12:38pm
Joined: Jun 07 2011
Member No: #508
Location: dronfield
 I have a C6 Lignagne with the same epr/abs and handbrake messages with it being dificult to disengane the parking brake. I also now have the yellow warning light permanently on with associated beeps even when I unlock the car.
Did the replacement footbrake switch fix your problems completely. If so I will ask my Citroen man to replace it on my car Cheers in advance
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