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C6 Headlight washer jet

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Grumpytvr   
Sun Dec 02 2012, 03:36pm
Joined: Dec 04 2011
Member No: #742
Location: Wiltshire
Hi C6Dave

Thanks for your post I've had it all apart again today and responding to your points:

C6Dave wrote ...

The washer jets are simply pushed out bt water pressure.

It sounds like your pump has failed. Ignore the voltage check, others have tested the same way, got the same result and eventually had to change the pump.

If it's not producing enough flow/pressure, the jets just won't pop up.


I have wired the headlight washer pump directly to a spare battery and the headlight washers work without any problems. The pump operates and pushes out the washers, so the mechanisms are working fine.

I have checked the output to the pump from the plug connector and when the washer stalk is operated nothing happens (in truth it reads a constant 12 volts, although clearly not enough to operate the pump). I tested the windscreen washer connector and this reads 0v under normal circumstances and 12v when the windscreen washer stalk is operated (this is what I'd also expect the headlight washer to do).

You're right, I suspect the pump is failing / has failed at some point causing the fuse to blow. My guess would be at some point it has jammed or been frozen up when it has been operated. It's likely I'll replace this item as a matter of course.

The remaining problem is that not only has the fuse blown, but it appears that a relay in the controller unit (or the controller unit itself) has also stopped working. I've no idea where the relay is, but I've a sneaking suspicion that it may be one of the little black boxes in the potted printed circuit board behind the fuses. It doesn't look like the kind of thing that can be taken out and fixed that easily.

You clearly have much, much more Citroen knowledge and experience than me (This is my first Citroen), perhaps you might be able to advise / confirm where the controller is and whether they are repairable or whether its a replacement job (I expect the associated expense will not be pleasant if it's a replacement job!)

C6Dave wrote ...
BTW you need to make sure that the wash fluid is the correct winter strength as they can freeze and pop out of the bumper all on their own.

The best I have found was from Lidl: - Click Here -


The stuff from Lidl is brilliant. I've been using it for several years as there's a branch I call into on the way home from work quite often.

As I've said previously, I don't know whether the headlamp washers have ever worked since I've had the car! I only noticed they weren't when I programmed the tyre pressure sensor and cleared all the faults off the ECU with Lexia. On the positive side I've got 6 months to sort it out before the next MOT. Obviously the sooner the better though.

The past week hasn't been great on the car front, the electric widows on my TVR also packed up again! So some further fault finding and fixing required there too... Serves me right I suppose for owning a glass fibre car and Gallic supercomputer for an every day car!

Any further help / assistance / experience / knowledge gratefully received. (Well on the Citroen problem anyway)

Cheers

Tom
C6Dave   
Sun Dec 02 2012, 03:54pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
You did test with the engine running and headlamps on as the headlamp washers only operate with headlights (dipped or main) illuminated
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Grumpytvr   
Sun Dec 02 2012, 05:12pm
Joined: Dec 04 2011
Member No: #742
Location: Wiltshire
C6Dave wrote ...

You did test with the engine running and headlamps on as the headlamp washers only operate with headlights (dipped or main) illuminated


Yes, engine running, headlights on and tried both dipped and main beam.

I've had a quick look at the wiring diagram for fuse box psf1 in the engine compartment and the head lamp washer is protected by fuse F4 (this was the one that was blown originally and I replaced). The fuse is next to R11, which is the relay I think there may be a problem with.

Wondering whether the next option is to try replacing the fuse box with another to see whether it solves the problem? Don't know whether it will require reprogramming in Lexia.....

Much gnashing of teeth!
Trainman   
Mon Dec 03 2012, 04:04pm

Joined: Apr 12 2010
Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham
I had a similar issue with a C5 facelift, I couldn't get the washer to work until the car was driving down the road............ just a thought..
Grumpytvr   
Mon Dec 03 2012, 09:22pm
Joined: Dec 04 2011
Member No: #742
Location: Wiltshire
Hi Steve

Thanks for the post. I tried this on the way home this evening and no luck - the headlights were dry when I got out and checked them.

I've plugged Lexia in again this evening and its still registering a permanent fault on headlamp wash control (F998). The fault is in the BSM unit (under the bonnet) according to Lexia.

Daft question I know, but I don't suppose anyone has a spare BSM unit that I could borrow to see if it's the unit itself or whether it could be a problem further back in the system?

Any further help appreciated.

Thanks

Tom
C6Dave   
Tue Dec 04 2012, 07:40am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
If you mean the 'engine bay fusebox' has a fault then it's unlikely anyone has a spare (even more so with a 2.2) and it's not a cheap replacement.

There was an issue with the fusebox on a few early cars (similarly with the C4 and C4GP) with corrosion on terminal F1
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Grumpytvr   
Tue Dec 04 2012, 09:36pm
Joined: Dec 04 2011
Member No: #742
Location: Wiltshire
Thanks for the info on possible corroded terminals. I'll look into it further over the weekend. I've got nothing to lose by taking the fuse box out and having a poke about.

I popped into a local Citroen dealer today and discovered that a replacement fuse box, whilst not cheap, was not as horrendously expensive as I was expecting (it was around £165) and does not require programming. - So worst case is to buy a replacement.

I did however draw the line at a replacement / spare key for my locking wheel bolts (mine is damaged but still works just about). They wanted £50 for it! A whole new set of locking wheel bolts with 2 new keys was £40.
Where's the logic in that?!?

Will ponder the fuse box issue a tad further before deciding what to do. Don't suppose anyone knows of any good Citroen specialist in the Wiltshire area? Whilst I'm pretty sure I know where the problem is, it would be worth getting a second opinion as I'm not 100%....
C6Dave   
Wed Dec 05 2012, 07:12am

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Go to: - Click Here - put your postcode in and search for an Independent.
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smihaialex   
Sun Dec 16 2012, 05:11pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Hi guys,

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread... I was a bit worried. You see, even though I use a winter windscreen washer liquid (good for up to -20 deg. C), when returning to the car after a couple of days of minus temperatures when I had only used my work 5 Series, I immediately noticed that the headlight jet enclosures seemed to have popped out only about half a centimetre or so... and I'm sure that they weren't like that when I had left the car... And they didn't work either...

After a few miles of driving around the city they had returned to the fully closed position, but they still didn't work... That was yesterday.

Today, they still won't work, but at least they haven't popped out anymore...

I wonder if Citroën possibly made it so that they only work when temperatures are a over 3 deg. C or something like that?!?
Hattershaun   
Sun Dec 16 2012, 06:16pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Maybe the water in the washer jets had frozen, expanding and therefore pushing out the front covers.
Just a thought.
drummond   
Mon Dec 17 2012, 08:10am
Joined: Sep 20 2010
Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh
Grumpytvr, I'm afraid that the logic is that when one gets a replacement, one has to convince Citroen that one owns the whole car, by the V5, driving licence etc. To prevent anyone else turning up and taking the wheels away with "your" key.

Then, back order with Citroen France- I'm still waiting for mine, one year later....

If you can get the locking nuts off, throw them away and a)get a new set for £40 or b) get 4 bolts from Citroen (about £6) and take the chance.

If you can't, then there is, on this site, information as to what to do.
smihaialex   
Mon Dec 17 2012, 10:09am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
@Shaun: yes, now I know that that's what happens when the windscreen liquid freezes over, but the question is, why would it not work since now they seem to have returned to the normal position... I mean, driving for a couple of hours generated enough heat to melt the frozen liquid enough for them to go back in their sockets, but not enough to make them actually work?!?

Thanks,
Sam
C6Dave   
Mon Dec 17 2012, 01:15pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Has the fuse for the pump blown or the pipe to the jets split as it was frozen?

Very common in cold weather when you don't use the correct grade screenwash
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Grumpytvr   
Mon Dec 17 2012, 01:48pm
Joined: Dec 04 2011
Member No: #742
Location: Wiltshire
drummond wrote ...

Grumpytvr, I'm afraid that the logic is that when one gets a replacement, one has to convince Citroen that one owns the whole car, by the V5, driving licence etc. To prevent anyone else turning up and taking the wheels away with "your" key.

Then, back order with Citroen France- I'm still waiting for mine, one year later....

If you can get the locking nuts off, throw them away and a)get a new set for £40 or b) get 4 bolts from Citroen (about £6) and take the chance.

If you can't, then there is, on this site, information as to what to do.


Thanks for this. Fortunately I still have the original key, which was damaged. I took it along to the Citroen dealer, along with the car and baulked at the cost of replacement key. Didn't get any further than that.

With some gentle persuation I managed to get the old locking wheel bolts off with the existing key (read impact wrench, my own body weight, safety glasses, gloves etc. Not something I'd normally consider but needs must...) and replaced them with some after market items. Job done - and yes you're right I threw the old ones away, they'd had it!

I think I'd have worn the tyres down to the rims if I'd waited for a new key for over a year! Good luck with that one.

I still haven't sorted the headlamp washers. That's a job for the New Year, In the mean time I wipe the headlights over with a damp cloth when I leave home in the morning and when I go home from work in the evening.
C6Dave   
Mon Dec 17 2012, 02:36pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Impact Gun and Citroen Locking Bolts = BIG NO NO

Never use an impact gun on the locking bolts as the key will break as the 'rollers' that grip the bolt will become loose, drop out.

Always undo/tighten the locking bolts using hand tools only and the key should be fine for years.

In 10 years (4 different Citroen's)I have only ever had one fail, when a numpty didn't listen to me and used an impact gun.

Needless to say, he paid for the new key..............
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