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2.7 hdi hard start when cold, injector fault codes and water in fuel error |
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Flokstra
 
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  Member No: #5165
Location: Frl |
Hi guys! Not exactly new to the page, because I think I just about downloaded every pdf to the subject. But new to the forum! I have just completed an engine swap in a C6 2.7 HDI for a friend of mine. Everything worked great and the engine started up on the third crank the first time I fired it up. Purring away on all its cylinders. The problems started a bit later. A few days later I wanted to take it for a test drive but it had problems starting. It drained the battery almost completely, but eventually, it started but ran on 4 or 5 cylinders. Turned the car off again, started it again and yes, running perfectly on 6 cylinders. When I wanted to drive away, it died on me, hard start again and died again. Then I just let it idle for a bit to get up to temp. This helped and the car drove fine! After that, no problems anymore. Fired up right away, drove of right away. Until the next day.... Same problem, same solution. Let it warm up a bit and everything oke. Because it had been sitting for a few months I suspected some moisture in the diesel. And sure enough, the next day (after the whole starting procedure again) I got the message "water in fuel filter" So I connected a hose on the fuel filter drain and drained it out (lift pump running) in a clean tray. No water in the fuel.... So I emptied the tank and filled it up with nice clean new diesel. But still the same problem! I then hooked up the computer and got (during the rough start) codes P0201, P0202, P0203, P0204, P0205, and P0206. All injectors reported a circuit malfunction. Also got a P1351 "Preheating relay Circuit, relay not controlled and glow plugs supplied. So I measured the glow plugs and two of them failed. But I cannot imagine that two missing glow plugs or even the complete glowplug relay circuit malfunctioning would cause these problems at 10 degrees Celsius. The problems kept persisting every morning again. After that, the whole day no problems. The next step I took was (after a ton of "water in filter" messages again) to change the fuel filter (also did that when swapping the engine) and cleaning the filter housing. It was as clean as I will get, and the drained fuel didn't contain any water. Now I am almost out of ideas, thinking about changing the glow plug relay as the glow plug symbol on the dash also doesn't light up. But again, can't imagine that is the problem. I drove around in lots of diesels at -10 that didn't have any glowplug work and they ran just fine. The injectors themselves are also fine because when it runs, it runs great! I really think it has to do with the fuel, because the very first time in the car, it ran great! The problems started after the fuel from the tank started circulating the "new" engine. Any thoughts on this woud be greatly appreciated! |
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cruiserphil
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    Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Hello Flokstra, I would check all relevant electrical plug connections in case during the assembly after engine change a pin got pushed back and is making intermittent contact. If your fuel was bad I wouldn't expect the engine to run well at any time. What do you think? Best regards, Phil C. |
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Flokstra
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Member No: #5165
Location: Frl |
Hi Phil! Thank you for your comment. I really don't think it is an electrical issue. That wouldn't explain all the injectors failing at once. It also wouldn't go away once the engine has some temperature in it. But I do agree with you that bad fuel would cause different/more problems. It feels like something settling overnight and clogging the fuel delivery. Could receiving not enough fuel lead to the injectors fault codes? |
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Flokstra
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Member No: #5165
Location: Frl |
So.. after two days of test driving without any problems I am inclined to draw the next conclusion. Two days ago the battery was totally flat after many start attempts. So I took it out to hook it up to my stationary charger. On doing that I noticed the + terminal was not properly connected and could be easily removed by hand. After charging the battery overnight and connecting it up properly. No problems anymore. On more problem I had, was the gearbox would shift to D or R with a bit of a clunk en get stuck in 3rd sometimes. This also coincided with the starting problems. That's also gone now. The only thing still going on is the "water in fuel filter" message. But... I just remembered, that on the old engine, the fuel filter wires weren't connected. So I suspect a faulty sensor and it had already been disconnected before to suppress the message. What are your thoughts on this? Could a faulty battery even cause these starting/gearbox problems? |
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cruiserphil
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Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Hello Flokstra, That's great news! A poor battery contact could cause all the problems you encountered. Voltage variations can cause havoc with the electronic control ECU's! I would relax now and enjoy driving the car. Thanks for posting the fix! Best regards, Phil C. |
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onthecut
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 Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids |
Hi Flokstra. I would just add a couple of points. If you have been in the position of draining water from the filter housing it can only have got there from the tank, so I would look at running the fuel level down and then removing the sender / pump assembly in the tank, to check for water and remove if present. (Unless there is a drain plug fitted), in which case I would remove that to let out any remaining water. I have had the duff glow plug relay warning on my C6 and pretty much every other Cit. I've had. Replacing the relay seems to make no difference, so I suspect something else must trigger it. Unless you have absolutely no choice, don't even contemplate changing the glow plugs -- it's just abouit the only job I've done on the C6 that I really wished I hadn't started. I still have one sheared plug that just cleared the thread but wouldn't come out. I left it in the hope that the compression / firing pressure would blow it out in due course -- fat chance ! Finally, on a general starting note, cranking speed, a good battery and a good starter make a world of difference. You tend not to notice the gradual fall off in performance of these pieces until youi replace them. Transformed mine from having to crank for some seconds in cold we3ather, to first time, every time. Mike. |
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cit-rotti
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 Member No: #3753
Location: Bayern |
Please check with the diagnostic device (preferably DIAGBOX) whether the values for the water temperature and the air temperature are plausible - both in cold and warm condition. If, for example, the water temperature is incorrect, there are similar anomalies. Glow plugs should only be replaced if they are really defective. Since the positive leads of the glow plugs are easily accessible on top of the engine, checking them is very uncomplicated. With the plugs disconnected, the ohmic values against earth can be easily determined. A voltmeter can also be used to check whether voltage is present. However, the best measurement is made with a clamp-on ammeter. This allows you to determine separately for each plug which current is flowing and when the glow control unit switches off. The current consumption per candle is approx. 15 A - decreasing with the duration. If possible, water should not be drained via the drainage screw on the filter housing - this can become leaky. It is better to open the filter housing - remove the filter - pump out the remaining diesel - clean the empty filter housing (compressed air) and reassemble everything. Greetings Wolfgang |
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