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EGR Removal

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C6Marcy   
Fri Mar 12 2021, 09:45am
Joined: Jul 11 2020
Member No: #4417
Location: South West
Has any other members noticed an improved engine by blanking the EGR? Are there any downsides

After parking my car over the winter period the front EGR is presenting an intermittent sticky valve fault code
arconell3   
Fri Mar 12 2021, 11:25pm
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
Hi Marcy,
Blanking EGR's is not a good idea*. Filling up on premium diesel is. My 2.7 has done 170k miles, still with the original EGR's in place. On premium diesel, in my case almost exclusively Total Excellium. I know EGR problems from others, never seen one on mine.

* EGR valves are meant to reduce NOX emission, by reducing the combustion temperature. They get clogged up because of soot, which is formed during (incomplete) combustion. Incomplete combustion is caused by a number of factors, like a dirty air filter, dirty MAF's and low quality fuels, i.e. fuels without cleaning additives. It is not only a self perpetuating process but also a self reinforcing one.

By blanking them, you are increasing combustion temperatures, baking all existing deposits inside the combustion chambers, on pistons, cylinder head and valve seats, to a nice rock hard crisp, causing engine knock for starters and more often then not resulting in leaking valves, blown out pistons and what have you.

Regards, Robert



Website
Fraunie   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 07:38am
Joined: Dec 09 2018
Member No: #3763
Location: Stockdorf
Dear Robert

No offense, but over the years discussing EGR problems in various places, you must have realized that you are obviously one of the few C6-Owners without any problems with your EGRs.

Congratulations!

But: It is like the story of the 100 year old guy who smoked two packs of cigs per day his whole life and never had any problems...

As the majority of the C6-Owners comes to that point anywhere in the cars life, we have to face facts that the construction itself isn't working well. Even if you are fueling Premium Diesel and going long distance only.

Blanking the EGR is an option and many have done it to get rid of the related problems.
Most of these cars and their engines are working better without EGRs.

Please be so kind and accept that your car is (obviously) an exception...
cit-rotti   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 10:20am
Joined: Dec 03 2018
Member No: #3753
Location: Bayern
... the question of programming and closing the EGR - both are necessary - usually only arises when things become faulty.
This is work "for sick monkeys" - if you do it yourself.
Or a 10-12 hour job for a workshop, if everything works fine - costs with material around 2000 €.
Programming the EGR + sealing plates costs less than two quality EGRs.
Although I only ride the Aral Ultimate, I had to use the AGR
Change 190000 km and the entire exhaust siff is deposited in the inlet area.
Several C6 drivers I know have therefore programmed and locked - no one has problems - on the contrary - better performance - cleaner intake tract - no more jerking - no engine has died.

The only problem: it is not allowed.

PS: In idle and so from 2700 rpm the EGR are closed anyway - does that damage the engine ???
Greetings Wolfgang
arconell3   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 10:38am
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
Hi Frauni,

Well, having been through this discussion many times before, specifically on the German ACC forum, you could've known or read there that my car is not an exception, since for instance, my girlfriends' C6, obviously getting the same treatment as mine, is still happily running ont its first EGR's as well. And so have a number of other C6es, belonging to good friends of mine...

Anyway, and more to the point:
1: Keep the internals (air intake, combustion chamber, injectors, exhaust) of your car clean and it will not only cause you fewer headaches, it will also run better and live longer.
2: Amputating EGR's doesn't solve any problems, it neither cleans your engine nor the air. And it can aggravate other existing problems.

As I have said many times before: it is your C6, do whatever you see fit, i.e. use common sense or your gut level feeling. But most importantly: stay healthy and enjoy driving your C6!

Regards, Robert


Website
arconell3   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 10:43am
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
cit-rotti wrote ...

... the question of programming and closing the EGR - both are necessary - usually only arises when things become faulty.
This is work "for sick monkeys" - if you do it yourself.
Or a 10-12 hour job for a workshop, if everything works fine - costs with material around 2000 €.
Programming the EGR + sealing plates costs less than two quality EGRs.
Although I only ride the Aral Ultimate, I had to use the AGR
Change 190000 km and the entire exhaust siff is deposited in the inlet area.
Several C6 drivers I know have therefore programmed and locked - no one has problems - on the contrary - better performance - cleaner intake tract - no more jerking - no engine has died.

The only problem: it is not allowed.

PS: In idle and so from 2700 rpm the EGR are closed anyway - does that damage the engine ???
Greetings Wolfgang


At higher RPM's combustion temperatures are always lower anyway. The highest combustion temperatures are found at max. torque RPM.

Regards, Robert
Website
Fraunie   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 11:17am
Joined: Dec 09 2018
Member No: #3763
Location: Stockdorf
Initially I hadn't had the intention to get rid of my EGRs because I thought with the right treatment (Aral Ultimate, long distance only) there wouldn't be a problem ever...

As I have found out, that wasn't the case.

The engine started cogging slightly in the EGR's relevant rpm, without the warning light showing at approximately 120.000 km.

When I was looking at the intake parts it was all polluted with that special oil/carbon mud (see picture)

Therefore I have decided to deprogram the EGRs and close them (IMHO you have to do both)

I know you have "Carbon Cleaning" in the Netherlands (unfortunately not available in Germany) and you had mentioned using it several times. Could that be the reason not having problems?
Fraunie   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 11:19am
Joined: Dec 09 2018
Member No: #3763
Location: Stockdorf


arconell3   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 02:52pm
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
Hi Fraunie,
Look at the picture of the same spot but on the side of the EGR tube: - Click Here -
That is my car at 110.000 miles, a couple of years ago, before it ever had a carbon cleaning because it wasn't available then. I also run a 2.2 HDI, looks similar, as does my girlfriends' C6.

Carbon cleaning helps cleaning up your engine and can also clean up the EGR valve and everything that comes behind, but only if it is still open and at least somewhat functional. It is not a magic wand though. Basically the hydrogen is turned into extra water/steam during combustion. The result is a sort of steam cleaning of all the parts that follow after combustion, including the combustion chamber itself, the exhaust valves, turbine side of the turbochargers, the complete EGR circuit if it is still functional, etc.

As I said, soot buildup starts with bad/incomplete combustion. And that in turn starts with a bad/low grade or otherwise degraded or polluted fuel and is aggravated by an insufficient air supply. But there again, a good fuel, containing proper cleaning additives*, is not a magic wand either. It keeps a clean engine clean, but large deposits already in place won't disappear magically within the next 10 miles or so. Maybe in the next 10.000 if you're lucky. If not, combustion may be slightly better, but still producing soot and deposits.

Therefore, If you start off with a dirty engine, start cleaning manually everything you can lay your hands on. E.g. air filter, put in new MAF sensors or properly clean them (use isopropanol, never use a brake cleaner!!), the temperature and air pressure sensors inside the butterfly housing, the crankcase ventilation (inside the V), etc.

From then on, start using the good quality fuels only and check regularly to see if there are still deposits building up at the end of the EGR tubes. If so, check and clean all sensors again, use a good engine cleaner (Liqui Moly Super Diesel additive or a similar product and/or get a carbon cleaning) and use it until the deposits have stopped building up and the EGR tubes look dry and only slightly dusted.

* For some reason or other, cleaning additives are only added to the premium diesel fuels, not even to the regular diesel of the same brands.

Regards, Robert

Ps: Once the engine is completely cleaned up, problems like hiccups and what is usually referred to as turbo lag (but really isn't) have indeed magically disappeared.
Website
Fraunie   
Sat Mar 13 2021, 03:25pm
Joined: Dec 09 2018
Member No: #3763
Location: Stockdorf
Sorry Robert, but you still don't get the point of this discussion...

Btw. C6Mary asked at the beginning "if somebody noticed an improved engine by blanking the EGR" and yes,
I can say, the engine of my C6 improved a lot!
C6Marcy   
Mon Mar 15 2021, 01:00pm
Joined: Jul 11 2020
Member No: #4417
Location: South West
Thank you for your input chaps/chapetes, I feel I am going to go down the road of having my EGR system blanked off

Fraunie   
Mon Mar 15 2021, 02:20pm
Joined: Dec 09 2018
Member No: #3763
Location: Stockdorf
Just be aware that it is not enough to put in a plate AFTER the EGR only.

Best way is to de-program it and to close it (perfect: directly from the exhaust side of the engine, before the gas hits the EGR, but much more work...)
 

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