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Noises after Cambelt change |
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Ranger12
 
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  Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Hello again all, this is a new thread because I felt that this needs to be separated from the 'pulling to one side' thread I added to. So, I just had the cambelts, auxiliary, and fuel pump belts, as well as the tensioner unit (it was whining terribly) changed at my local garage, and when I picked up the car, although the whining has gone, I have new issues, namely noisier engine, with metallic clunking sounds coming from the engine bay. Yesterday, after the car had sat for a few days unused, I went out to start it and the engine was even noisier than when I picked it up from the garage, and I could hear the tappets as well as a metallic clunking, and a vibration, and a bit of a misfire (probably due to hydraulic tappets being low on oil pressure. Yet again this is a brand new problem, I have not experienced this at all since purchasing this car, this literally has only happened after the cambelt job. So, as I was writing this, I thought I'd just go outside and start the car (a day later) to see if it did the same, and lo, it is still misfiring, clouds of smoke out of the exhausts and a stink of diesel, the car sounds like an old taxi, the tappets can be heard rattling, and vibration can be felt in the cabin, none of which it did before it was worked on ... again! Anyone know what I should do? The garage I have taken my car to appears to have damaged every part of the vehicle I asked them to work on except the front suspension struts. Literally everything else they have done has resulted in these things going wrong:- 1 - Bodywork - damaged with scuffs, scrapes and gouges that weren't their before. 2 - Engine running badly, where it was smooth now rough. 3 - Autobox slipping more than before it had oil changed (partially). 4 - Suspension higher at rear than the front. 5 - Car still pulls to the left exactly as before. 6 - Oil in gearbox not what was asked for. 7 - Brakes weaker than before its interim service, I barely had to push the pedal, now I appear to have minimal power assistance. I am a live in carer, I bought this car, and now I daren't drive it after spending over £3000 on servicing and repairs (which is more than I bought the car for), and there's still a coolant valve to replace. These events have ruined that 'new-car' feeling. I barely had it for a week before things that happened started playing on my mind and turning this into a nightmare. |
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David Hallworth
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    Member No: #90
Location: Glasgow |
It sounds like the timing has either moved or hasn't been set properly. If you can hear things rattling I'd be getting in touch with them and asking them to come and recover the car and sort it out. If it's missing, smoking and sounds rattly it's definitely not in time. Personally, I'd stop using it and not start it until there's a plan in place as doing so could do more damage. David. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Thank you for your rapid response, I can't thank you and other members here enough for your invaluable advice and knowledge. I will take your advice and not start it again. I cannot see how the belts would slip by themselves in the space of 5 miles on newly replaced cambelts, water pump, aux belt, aux belt tensioner, thermostat and housing, coolant pipe (which got broken and replaced during the operation) and injection pump belt. It was also at this point that the radiator, which literally had no signs anywhere of leaks, suddenly developed a weep around the top metal to plastic interface. It is clearly fresh, as there is no staining, just a sliver of pink coolant sitting in the joins. |
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David Hallworth
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Member No: #90
Location: Glasgow |
Even if they did test it and it was all ok, the timing should not have moved at all let alone in a few miles. The work that they’ve done should come with a warranty on it. David. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
What a good point, that had totally slipped my mind (really, not being facetious), I'd got so wound up, I simply forgot about warranties. Thank you. |
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David Hallworth
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Member No: #90
Location: Glasgow |
If your garage refuse to play ball, the other option you have is to take it to someone who knows the C6 inside out such as BL Auto’s and have them do an inspection of the car. If they confirm that the work the garage have done is defective and will write you a report, you could always seek to recover your costs in the small claims court. Personally though, the best thing I think you could do is stop using that garage as they’re obviously doing you no favours. David. |
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MGmike
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   Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry |
 I'm feeling your pain and if you were closer I'd offer to do it for you.... FOC  for you.
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C6Marcy
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 Member No: #4417
Location: South West |
MGmike wrote ... I'm feeling your pain and if you were closer I'd offer to do it for you.... FOC for you. Same here, hopefully the garage does the right thing and repairs your car without fuss I do have some silver bodywork panels if that's of any use? |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Thanks guys, your supportive words really make a difference to me, and I truly appreciate your perspectives and advice. I had to laugh btw, the very kind offers you have made, I mentioned to the old lady I care for (praising you guys to her for cheering me up), and she immediately said she'd pay for you to do it, but I had to point out that you're on the other side of the planet, but the sentiment is appreciated even if practicality makes it unlikely. The body panels are fortunately not beyond salvage, a good detailed session or two with t-cut and some buffing should restore most of the paintwork, and where there are deeper scratches, I think a colour coded touch-up pen may do the trick. The trim below the nearside rear door though must be replaced as even with my skills, I wouldn't be able to restore it to the same texture (well I could but not without a lot of time and expense), and a replacement is the easier option. It's all a lot of work though. |
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C6Marcy
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Member No: #4417
Location: South West |
Unfortunately the nearside rear door trim has already been sold from my car otherwise you were welcome to it | ||
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David Hallworth
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Member No: #90
Location: Glasgow |
BL Auto’s might be on the other side of the country, however, I guarantee that if you took the car there you’d be driving it away perfectly sorted. I travel from Glasgow to Welwyn Garden City to have Robert work on my car. I feel pretty bad about it as it’s usually do jobs I don’t want to do myself! I had a 3.0 HDI C5 a couple of years ago, I took it to Citroen Glasgow for it’s MOT and asked them to look for a clunk from the front end. I got it back with a fresh MOT with no advisories and a note saying they couldn’t find the clunk. In the end, I drove to BL Auto’s, dropped the car off and got the train home. Robert text me as I was on the train to say the clunk was bottom arm bushes. I’m glad he found them as on the way down the car started to feel unstable as if it was drifting and I was having to correct it. When Robert got around to doing the work, the arm bushes were almost non existent. When the car was finished, I got the train back down to fetch it. I was collected from the station in my car and just as a passenger you could feel the difference on the way back to the garage. I grinned most of the way home as it was like having a new car. Given the problems that you’re having, I’d only consider BL Auto’s as you know the car will come back sorted. David. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Hi David, thank you for the information, I have sent an email to BL Autos explaining the situation, however the car would have to be recovered to them in this instance as I dare not even run the engine in this condition, as I think diesel may have already mixed with the oil, and that will likely kill the engine if run like that, plus the smoking, and metallic noises really seem to indicate imminent failure if not fixed pronto. I am at a loss though to explain in mechanical terms why the timing being out a tooth (if that is what it turns out to be) would cause the hydraulic lifters to be so noisy. Even with the timing out a bit, this shouldn't have affected the oil pressure to the lifters, which is what sounds like is happening, and I think it is this that is causing the apparent misfire, stumbling, vibration, until oil pressure has built up. I also find it strange that no warning signals came on, though I can't say without a Lexia if there are faults recorded. I may be getting a bit paranoid, but I'm wondering if it is even possible to turn off parts of the electronics and sensors so that no warnings are given? |
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MGmike
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Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry |
I think that noise is more likely to be engine knock which can be a symptom of diesel engines not timed properly. BTH one tooth out is only about 10 deg which is hardly noticeable. I'm more concerned by your comment about the brakes lacking assistance as that suggests a lack of vacuum. So many things to check! Get it recovered to BL for peace of mind.... having spent 3k on repairs £200 on transport will be money well spent. Ask for a quote on shiply.com |
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cruiserphil
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 Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Hello Ranger12, As per the previous comments. If there's a difference after a timing belt change, there must be cam out by a tooth! Best regards, Phil C. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Thank you again for your advice, here is the email I got from the garage this morning, 'Good morning, I have read your email with interest, in my recent email I explained that we are waiting for 2 items which you are aware of and we would be in touch when both have arrived. One has been delivered and I will follow up the situation with the other shortly. You make mention of noise from your engine when cold, we heard this but this should be considered in the light of the age and mileage of your vehicle. The misfire you comment on is likely to be faulty injector but without examination it is difficult to say for certain. We reject all your allegations of poor workmanship and will not be buying your car or refunding any expense you have undertaken. As soon as I have had an update on the coolant bypass you have paid for I will be in touch. When it arrives we will refund the cost and labour for this item as we will no longer be prepared to work on your car other than the items agreed in my previous mail. Yours sincerely, Managing Director' (The above email quote has been edited by Shaolin12 to remove identifying material) As suspected the facts are being ignored (they are facts because my car has been driven multiple times now, without any mention of the issues I raised). The car was running perfectly (on the engine side) until after the replacement of the cambelts, now this just proves my points, that the Garage I used is not competent, and dishonest, at least that's how the behaviour of this garage has painted it since. The Garage had my car for over 2 weeks during the lock down just gone. It had a quarter of a tank of fuel when I handed it over (it was given back empty), and after the cambelt job, the car was tested, and it was written on the receipt that it had passed the tests. It was also mentioned that the radiator has a slight leak, which wasn't there before either, but the garage said they had noticed the noise, yet did nothing about it, not to even inform me, yet were so keen to inform me of other issues. I think the email response said it all. |
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