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C6 "Comfort spheres" *done*

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joopajaa   
Mon Jun 18 2018, 05:58am
Joined: Sep 06 2017
Member No: #3261
Location: Byroslavia, FIN
HI has anyone here have done some serious sphere-mixing? I think my car is way too stiff (for la grande citroen) and Im thinkin doing something to it. Current spheres are only 2-3 years old so I dont think they are to blame. They are just too little and the pressure is too low also. The "sport" button on these cars is a joke - it should be comfort / ultra comfort. 0% sportiness with these cars weighting a whale and I like it that way

a) Anyone know if one can fit CX/BX etc (bigger) spheres to front struts? Dimensions?
b) Same on back - well actually the rear is quite OK so maybe if one can get the front to same level of smoothness it might be just enough.
c) How about putting 50bar fronts to rear and 70bar center ones to front? This way one should only buy 2 new 70bar spheres to try...

My front is a little bit too low and it seems I cant get it right with diagbox - maybe I need to adjust the sensor a little bit. This is also a factor for the stiffness but as I tried with "erroring" the height adjust and the car was then reverted to some basic setup (nose way up) it was no better (smoothenss-wise), only making clunk-noise when out bounced after a bump - the travel of the strut stopped to the outmark.
321dave   
Mon Jun 18 2018, 07:30am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
joopajaa wrote ...

HI has anyone here have done some serious sphere-mixing? I think my car is way too stiff (for la grande citroen) and Im thinkin doing something to it. Current spheres are only 2-3 years old so I dont think they are to blame. They are just too little and the pressure is too low also. The "sport" button on these cars is a joke - it should be comfort / ultra comfort. 0% sportiness with these cars weighting a whale and I like it that way

a) Anyone know if one can fit CX/BX etc (bigger) spheres to front struts? Dimensions?
b) Same on back - well actually the rear is quite OK so maybe if one can get the front to same level of smoothness it might be just enough.
c) How about putting 50bar fronts to rear and 70bar center ones to front? This way one should only buy 2 new 70bar spheres to try...

My front is a little bit too low and it seems I cant get it right with diagbox - maybe I need to adjust the sensor a little bit. This is also a factor for the stiffness but as I tried with "erroring" the height adjust and the car was then reverted to some basic setup (nose way up) it was no better (smoothenss-wise), only making clunk-noise when out bounced after a bump - the travel of the strut stopped to the outmark.


Hi Joopajaa,
don't forget your tyres! Mine are now just a month away from being replaced with a set of the new primacy 4 tyres when they become available in 18's, but the Michelins up to recently were fine but now they need changing as noise and sound have gone up as the rubber has worn away naturally. Not sure, but I would imagine the ride will be softer as well.

Regards
Dave
cruiserphil   
Mon Jun 18 2018, 09:06am

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
Hello Joopajaa,

The older spheres (CX/BX etc.) have the damping provided by a sized orifice in the threaded end of the sphere. Your car will have the AMVAR suspension which means the damping is done by the struts and all the spheres are open at the hydraulic end like the regulator sphere on the older models. so they're not compatible, unless it's OK to drill out the orifice on an older sphere to suit? Not sure about sphere thread size compatibility either?

I've found that if heights are not correct it affects the stiffness of the car so its essential to make sure their correct. There's also the comfort sphere and its associated valve in the front right hand wheel arch to consider checking if you consider the front to be specifically the problem?

Best regards,

Phil C.
1 User said Thank You to cruiserphil for this Post :
 321dave (18 June 2018)
travlician   
Mon Jun 18 2018, 12:54pm
Joined: Jan 22 2011
Member No: #350
Location: Paradera
You might try CX accumulator spheres, 80bar without orifice. But issue is most likely height adjustment. The C6 is sensitive for that because if left and right are off, the sensors indicate side pressure like when you are cornering and therefore set the adjustable orifice (AMVAR) to a smaller dimension. Since ride height is off anyway I would try that first.
3 User said Thank You to travlician for this Post :
 cruiserphil (18 June 2018) , Tjensen (18 June 2018) , 321dave (18 June 2018)
Hattershaun   
Mon Jun 18 2018, 03:49pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire
I had a permanent fault in the ECU memory, 'Front suspension pressure sensor faulty'.
With a new sensor the memorised fault could be erased and didn't return.

With the fault the suspension felt a bit too stiff, with the new sensor the comfort & 'floatiness' returned to normal.
So, it's worth checking your car with the diagnostic computer.

Even if you spheres are only 2 or 3 years old it would be good to pressure check them to be certain.



3 User said Thank You to Hattershaun for this Post :
 321dave (18 June 2018) , Norman (18 June 2018) , cruiserphil (20 June 2018)
joopajaa   
Tue Jun 19 2018, 05:36am
Joined: Sep 06 2017
Member No: #3261
Location: Byroslavia, FIN
About the damping on some spheres: cant you just drill it away? I know many C5 drivers do that tuning to their (too stiff) suspension. I have owned only hydractive 3+ hydraulic cars so I have not ever been able to try the old floaty ones to compare the ride quality. But all my H3+ cars have been too stiff imho. 2x 2007 C5, a C5 X7 and this C6. Driving to a bumb with Xsara was way better experience than any of those H3+'s....

But the height is the first thing to try to fix. I have had 3 types of 18" tyres on this car yet and not enough comfort with any of those (we also use winter tyres here on the north pole).

About the diagnostics: I have diagbox and lexia and I have used tens of hours with these H3+ cars to try and see the difference with heights and other settings. I think I have one fault code: steering sensor. That could be also the main cause? On the other hand I have been driving with diagbox open to see the stiffness settings real time and I did not see any problems with going to soft settings while driving.
jamescarruthers   
Tue Jun 19 2018, 07:45am
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Member No: #1548
Location: Cambridge
Having came from lovely XMs and BXs I can say that the ride in the C6 is not as nice by a long way. I think it is mainly due to the silly large 18" wheels. I recently replaced all four tyres with Michelin's and the difference between these and the previous cheap ones was pretty small as far as comfort and noise goes. I am running regassed spheres too and this didn't help.

I've seen on here that people have achieved a better ride using the 17" wheels from the lower spec C6's. But in my opinion those wheels look [%*^#@!]!

It's like there is no solution other than to move out of the UK with our potholed roads! The car is fabulous on the motorway and floats along very nicely-- round town it is crashy.

I presume everyone else has similar experiences?
vaho   
Tue Jun 19 2018, 12:16pm
Joined: Jun 25 2015
Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn
Steering sensor fault code is a software glitch, it is always present.
321dave   
Tue Jun 19 2018, 04:28pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
vaho wrote ...

Steering sensor fault code is a software glitch, it is always present.


I had the 17" steel wheels with the large sidewalls on once when I was getting the larger wheels refurbished on the front and the ride was very nice indeed. I think the 18" do definitely effect the ride quality unfortunately.
1 User said Thank You to 321dave for this Post :
 cruiserphil (20 June 2018)
arconell3   
Tue Jun 19 2018, 06:40pm
Joined: Jun 28 2012
Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar
joopajaa wrote ...

......My front is a little bit too low and it seems I cant get it right with diagbox - maybe I need to adjust the sensor a little bit. This is also a factor for the stiffness but as I tried with "erroring" the height adjust and the car was then reverted to some basic setup (nose way up) it was no better (smoothenss-wise), only making clunk-noise when out bounced after a bump - the travel of the strut stopped to the outmark.


As you mentioned you seem to have trouble getting the height adjustment properly done. Doing the height adjustment without the proper tools is nigh impossible. Which means you will have to get the car to a C6 specialist garage, versed in making these adjustments. They will also tell you that before making the ride height adjustments, a proper alignment needs to be done. Or, to be absolutely precise, an alignment is really needed before and after adjustment. And, please, don't try to adjust the sensors yourself, it will almost certainly cost you new sensors and/or a new sensor support brackets.

Once that is all done properly, you will completely forget about swapping spheres or any such superfluous operations....

Regards, Robert
Website
travlician   
Wed Jun 20 2018, 01:41pm
Joined: Jan 22 2011
Member No: #350
Location: Paradera
joopajaa wrote ...

About the damping on some spheres: cant you just drill it away?

The drilling is only useful on spheres with fixed built in damper, the C6 (with AMVAR) spheres are without built in damper as the AMVAR has a variable damping actuator on the strut. I have read once that these can be manipulated to get a softer ride but the poster did not reply to questions concerning this issue. I tried once to disconnect the AMVAR actuators leaving these completely open using Lexia (sphere test procedure, disconnect the actuator on the corner that is being opened for test), which proved the suspension can be extremely (undrivable) soft. If in that time I could have my hands on the software I would try to modify it. Really, my CX was way softer and nicer on bad roads. But AMVAR strategy is to increase damping on bad surfaces thereby making the car less comfortable but ensures safety... That also makes the ride on smooth roads so nice.
2 User said Thank You to travlician for this Post :
 cruiserphil (20 June 2018) , 321dave (21 June 2018)
bargi   
Wed Jun 20 2018, 08:14pm
Joined: Apr 10 2016
Member No: #2590
Location: London
travlician wrote ...

Really, my CX was way softer and nicer on bad roads.


would this not be mainly because of the smaller, higher profile tyres?

The C6 does a pretty good job with 18's but I can't help but think some 16's would be much better.
jamescarruthers   
Thu Jun 21 2018, 08:47am
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Member No: #1548
Location: Cambridge
What's the smallest wheel we can get on with the massive brake discs?

17"! guaranteed as some C6's have these
16": good question. Anyone tried?

I doubt XM Mk. 1 15" alloy wheels will fit (the ones with the massive centre cap. I think they would look good though!
Tjensen   
Sat Jun 23 2018, 04:13pm
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
The DS, CX and GS had genuine Citroen chassis, hydraulics+long travel. With standard PSA chassis platform the limited suspension travel may be the limiting factor. The C6 has advanced multilink setup anbd the best Hydraulic system ever. But on bad roads and over speedpumps it is the worst of the big Citroens (with XM in between and DS as the magic one). May be experimenting with spheres is not a solution ?
Kaloteck   
Sun Jul 22 2018, 06:21pm
Joined: Apr 25 2013
Member No: #1271
Location: Warsaw
joopajaa wrote ...

all my H3+ cars have been too stiff imho. 2x 2007 C5, a C5 X7 and this C6. Driving to a bumb with Xsara was way better experience than any of those H3+'s..

Come again ?
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