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C6 Suspension 'Pitching'

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smihaialex   
Tue Jan 22 2013, 08:12pm
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Hi there @Pappnase,

Didn't remember the versions and have no means of checking that myself but I'd be more than glad to help...

First of all you have to know that there are 5 main computers on your C6:

- the SDI that controls the engine/injection map

- the AM6 that controls the 6-speed automatic gearbox

- the ABS/ESP (might also appear as ABS/ESP_CAN_40 or something similar) that controls electronic brake distribution with anti-lock feature, stability and traction control

- the SUSPENSION (might also appear as ECOTECH_SUSPENSION or something simmilar) that controls general suspension settings

- and the CSS which stands for Controle Systeme Suspension and is the official name of the computer that controls what people most commonly know as AMVAR which stands for Amortisation Variable and is available only on higher spec C6s (if you drive a 2.2 Lignage, the CSS will most likely not be listed or listed as Not Present).

So on the higher spec C6s there are in fact 2 computers that control suspensiopn, but as the document that Dave so kindly included in the begining of this thread specifies, this update only targets the CSS (AMVAR)...

I stood next to the Citroen engineer as he ran diagnostics and checked for updates and my car only needed the CSS to be updated, as the SDI, the AM6, the ABS/ESP and the SUSPENSION were all up to date.

So, the easiest way to know if your car needs the update or not is this... When connected to Citroen's official diagnosis and repair box (which is no longer Lexia, BTW, even though the engineer told me that in many ways Lexia was superior to what they are using now), after running the initial diagnosys on your car, all modules and faults are listed (if any)...

Next, you select the CSS module (or any other module for any computer on your car you would want to update) and you see a list of available operations.

Amongst these options you will see Repair.

As you click on it, you will have 2 options:

- Download Identification - which lists the current version installed on the car

- Download - which updates the software on that computer with the latest version available on the Citroen Service Network Servers

If you hit Download, you will be required a valid connection to the internet (connection test), then authentification and authorisation on the Citroen Service Network (username and password that the engineer will provide), then the software will connect to the server, download the latest available update, compare it to the version installed on your car and if it's newer install it. If not, you will be informed that "the latest version is already on the car and no update is required".

And that's how you know!

So, @Pappnase, that's what I suggest you do - ask to stand next to the engineer and as he navigates to the CSS module and hits Repair -> Download, you will know!

Sidenote: After doing the update I didn't notice any significant difference in the ride - it does seem a bit more controlled but it might all just be in my head However, I did notice a somewhat significant improvement in regards to the sound when hitting smaller bumps and cracks in the road... So it does seem to trigger the AMVAR actuators less frequently -

I guess they realised that the old setting was too sensitive - the suspension was trying to adapt to even the slightest road imperfection, but if the speed of the car was higher than let's say 30 mph, then the suspension had in fact no time to actually adapt, as by the time it reacted, the imperfection was already gone, so all the passengers were left with was the sound of the actuators piling up on top of the sound of the actual bump or crack, and that's something they seem to have fixed...

Will do more driving and report if I find anything else

Cheers,
Sam
Pappnase   
Tue Jan 22 2013, 08:23pm
Joined: Sep 30 2012
Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn
Hi Sam,
thanks. I already had the C6 in two different garages which told me there were no update available. But of course they did not let me watch the procedure so I do not fully believe what they say if you know what I mean.
I persuaded my new diagbox/lexia to work properly today. Finally got rid of the obnoxious seat belt beeper hooray! I shall try to find the CSS software version number next time.
I'll stay in tune
g

P.S. the lexia tells me that the C6 has got 41 control computers to read. This is quite something.
Tjensen   
Tue Jan 22 2013, 08:45pm
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
Thanks, this was useful. I can take it to my garage. Did you se the date of update for CSS(AMVAR) ?
smihaialex   
Wed Jan 23 2013, 09:47am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
@Pappnase: yes, lots of computers, but those 5 are the mains which in term communicate with the others...

Now, my guess is that if the guys over at 2 different services told you that your car's CSS is up to date and the latest version is installed, then that must the case, and you can rest easy... I mean, it's such an easy and straightforward operation (it only took 2-3 minutes to do the update from start to finish, 30 seconds to find out if it needed the update or not), that it wouldn't make any sense for them to tell you that it doesn't need it if it actually did

@Tjensen: sorry, I didn't get the chance to see the date for the CSS update... I did see the SDI software version - it was dated 2011, which took me by surprise as I hadn't expected such a new version, seeing that my car was first registered in 2007, but is in fact a 2006 build...

However, I promise you that next time I'm at the service (which hopefully won't be too soon, if you know what I mean), I will ask the engineer to take screenshots of the Download Identification screens and, with Dave's help, post them on the website...

Cheerios,
Sam
smihaialex   
Fri Jan 25 2013, 09:40am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Happy to announce that I had the privilege of having my first ride in a DS yesterday evening.

It was a DS19 Special with 1.9 Petrol engine dating from 1971 owned by Romanian fashion designer Florin Dobre...

The ride was magical, and even though it was cold and raining cats & dogs in Bucharest, I absolutely loooved it...

Having said that, I must admit that while the charm and nostalgia and happiness and excitement on my part were all of indescribable proportions, the rational side thought back to some earlier discussions we've had - analog vs. electronic - DS ride vs C6 ride and what I found was that instead of judging them one against the other, picking sides and scribbling mental lists of plus and minuses for each one, I just sat back in awe and began to appreciate them both even more than before... Although they are definitely not the same, it is clear to me now that they share the same beautifully engineered genetic material...

Sam out!
Tjensen   
Fri Jan 25 2013, 01:22pm
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
Intersting experience you had. My DS experiences are old (sold my last in 1998). DS had beautiful comfort and stability, as well as an abilty to forgive drama and errors in the driving situation. And it had consistent handling. But nose-heavy and with (predictable) limits. XM Hydractive and even more C6 are less extreme and more like other cars in some ways (wheel geometry ?), but with comfort, precision and especially adaptive properties that are unique and better than all other cars (?). Makes it a safe and relaxed car to drive. But I miss the DIRAVI steering of the CX and XM V6, better than both C6 and DS.
2 User said Thank You to Tjensen for this Post :
 cruiserphil (25 January 2013) , smihaialex (28 January 2013)
magcar   
Thu Jan 31 2013, 09:02am
Joined: Oct 22 2012
Member No: #1066
Location: Kungsbacka
Hi Sam,
Is the update service from the Citroen garage free, or did you have to pay for it?
smihaialex   
Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:26am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
Hi Magcar,

I had to pay for the time of the engineer doing the job, not the update itself - it was the same price as doing a computer diagnosis - less than 50 quid

Sam
Lars of Sweden   
Sat Feb 02 2013, 04:56am
Joined: Aug 17 2012
Member No: #991
Location: Tenhult
magcar wrote ...

Hi Sam,
Is the update service from the Citroen garage free, or did you have to pay for it?

At "my" garage, they update the firmware (if applicable) at time of service. No extra charge!
Tjensen   
Sun Feb 03 2013, 02:34am
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
Tried the "sport" gearchange and pressed the pedal today. Under heavy acceleration the steering is changed and have a bit of its own life. This behavior is like "all" powerful front-wheel drive cars, but not DS and not CX and not XM V6. Is it too much power or just "industry standard" sloppy engineering ?
pclark   
Sun Feb 03 2013, 11:08am
Joined: Oct 08 2009
Member No: #3
Location: North Yorkshire
Torque steer is inevitable in a front wheel drive car with so much power and torque, Unless it had true centre point steering like the DS and CX, but they had much less power and particularly torque (apart from the CX Gti Turbo) anyway. The V6 HDI is at the limit of what front drive can handle, thats why more powerful cars are rear or four wheel drive.

Some very powerful hot hatches such as the Ford Focus RS and the Top Astra and Megane have the steering joints outboard of the front strut to get the steering axis nearer to the wheel centre line to reduce torque steer (rather than using the strut itself as the steering axis in conventional Macpherson strut cars).

The C6 (and C5, Peugeot 407 and top versions of the 508) with the double wishbone front suspension acheive similar results, but not true centre point steering that was a Citroen feature when they were an engineering led firm before Peugeot's accountants got involved!

Having said that Citroen probably would have gone bust many years ago if they hadn't!
Tjensen   
Sun Feb 03 2013, 11:17am
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
My CX was the Turbo and the power/weight ratio was at the same level as C6 with better acceleration figures So it can be done. But: not really a problem, and better than most. Thanks for information !
smihaialex   
Mon Feb 04 2013, 09:07am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
I agree, power steering is there, especially if you drive a bit more aggressively, but is still very well controlled in the C6...

The Mazda 3 MPS and the VAUXHALL Vectra OPC are in my opinion the worst in this category - their chassis and steering was just not engineered to handle all that power - they are the only 2 cars in which even the driver can get motion sickness, while driving

And no, having 4 wheel traction or rear wheel traction does not help...

With most modern automatic 4x4 transmission design, when driving on a decent road, the car is basically front-wheel drive - only on poor or slippery roads, the ratio can become as much as 50-50 (50% of the traction on the front wheels, 50% on the rear wheels), although for most cars it is actually 60-40.

And with rear wheel drive, there is indeed no actual power steering, but the back can get away from you which is actually worse than power steering I say that because you immediately feel power steering and can correct it by naturally taking your foot off the gas, but with your back flipping, it's not as easy, because taking your foot off the gas might actually make the car spin

Sam
Tjensen   
Mon Feb 04 2013, 09:20am
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Member No: #954
Location: Bergen
The CX (the last Citroen to be designed by the magical Citroen research & development division (put down in 1982)had almost no power steer, not even in the Turbo 0-100 7,9 sec 168HP 40,5 kg/m torque. CX did not have true center-point steering, and did not have center-mounted brakes, So it can be done... But I agree the C6 probably are among the best in this aspect today. The XM had no version with really high torque and was smooth in this area. But I have not tried the XM 200 HP V6-24 or the Citroen V6 SM.
1 User said Thank You to Tjensen for this Post :
 smihaialex (04 February 2013)
smihaialex   
Mon Feb 04 2013, 09:54am
Joined: Sep 18 2012
Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest
I bet the SM was something else

Sam
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