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Me again with another C6 and the usual niggles.... But now gone. |
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Tjensen
 
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   Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
Would it help to use C1 or C4 oil in place of the recommended C2 ? They are both even lower in SAPS and the C4 (Renault specified) is more modern. C1 is recommended when the same engine is used in Jaguars (?). The 3.0 has more modern and more expensive EGRs. see below: "The new engine offers a new Exhaust Gas Circulation (EGR) system in which the thermal capability of the fuel/water exchanger is improved by 40%. It comprises electric blades as well as a pneumatic control of by-pass valve both controlled by the engine control unit. With a cold engine, the by-pass allows circulation through the exchanger, to limit the condensation of soot caused by the combustion and therefore the unburnt hydrocarbon emissions, and allows a more rapid increase in engine temperature and reduced combustion noise and overall improvement. With a hot engine, the by-pass is closed and the exhaust gas crosses the exchanger with increased power, thus offering a net advantage in terms of reduced consumption and emission of NOx." |
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vaho
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  Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn |
Dave-Retired wrote ...  I can assure that all the valves, operational or not, are looking the same. I removed one after 100 km-s and it was covered with black soot. The exhaust gases contain it so much that it is absolutely normal. The valve does not have to be stuck open. |
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vaho
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Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn |
About the oils to use. Found this information: The categories within the C class are devided along SAPS limits and along HTHS viscosities. C1 and C4 are low-SAPS oils, while C2 and C3 are mid-SAPS oils. On the other hand C1 and C2 oils have lower HTHS viscosities, while C3 and C4 oils have higher HTHS viscosities. The C5 category that has been newly introduced in the ACEA 2016 sequences has even lower limit for HTHS vicsosity. In order for an oil to meet this specification it must be a mid-SAPS oil and its HTHS viscosity has to be between 2.6 and 2.9 mPa*s. Note: These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle’s Fuel Economy. Warning: Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types – consult the vehicle- OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt. ACEA C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s. ACEA C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s. ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s. ACEA C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s. ACEA C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPa*s. So these oils are different by category not better or worse between each other. I use Mobil 1 ESP Formula and previously used Total Quartz Ineo ECS. Mobil was recommended by our local Citroen dealer but who knows. |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
vaho wrote ... The valve actually has a return spring, it is in the actuator housing on the contact plate side (grey plastic housing). It is not very strong though so it is possible it can not move the valve to closed position when the mechanical side is stuck do to the soot. If you move the fork (contact plate side attached) by hand you should feel that it moves against the spring and returns - that is of course in case the actuator itself is not stuck or the spring is not broken. Just checked the one that was removed yesterday and the fork just spins around freely in either direction with zero resistance, so from what you indicate vaho, it seems like it is the actuator that has actually failed internally on that EGR. |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Vaho, when you say soot, I found that even upstream in this part of the EGR circuit, some oil can be found so deposits are sticky. Pretty sure as Dave has already stated, that problem with EGR valves is not even down to fouling, but just the electromechanical design of the actuator side. regards PS, on your other musings regarding C spec for the low SAPS rating, I've been down the same route and always stuck with the C2 balance of properties. Happy for someone else to be the rolling laboratory!!!! |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
vaho wrote ... If you move the fork (contact plate side attached) by hand you should feel that it moves against the spring and returns - that is of course in case the actuator itself is not stuck or the spring is not broken. Done some 'Destructive' investigation on the actuator section today and there is no return spring. It's basically a magnet at the connector end and a large copper wire coil. |
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vaho
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Member No: #2228
Location: Tallinn |
Yes, actuator itself has no spring, it is in contact plate housing (grey plastic part). The actuator shaft goes into the housing and when you screw it on it limits the movement of the actuator if you move it by hand from the fork side against the spring. | ||
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
vaho wrote ... Yes, actuator itself has no spring, it is in contact plate housing (grey plastic part). The actuator shaft goes into the housing and when you screw it on it limits the movement of the actuator if you move it by hand from the fork side against the spring. Ah, I misunderstood your previous comment. Your correct there is a 'spring' inside the end cap which works on the shaft itself, however it doesn't feel anything like powerful enough to default the valve to closed unless everything is scrupulously clean. |
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cruiserphil
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 Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Great posts and discussion lads. Many thanks! Best regards, Phil C. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
As we are off to France and Italy later this year and the C6 is now 10 years old (from the ORGA number it was a 2007 build) but has only done 102,483 miles (162,925klms) I decided to bite the bullet and have the timing belt and water pump changed. Was going to go to BL Autos but after factoring in the distance (fuel) time, overnight stays or train journeys X 2 decided to get it done locally at CIT dealers Wingrove in Wallsend. Total cost including a complete visual and quality check plus a brake fluid change (was worth doing that as the brakes are better) £767.87..... I did initially query Citroen Fixed Price Repairs at circa £330.00 but was told that was the timing belt only and did not include tensioners or the water pump obviously...... However I got a free car wash and interior vacuum  I was told though that the technician booked 13 hours work on the car as he had to carry out some repairs to the swirl pipes which had gone hard and brittle. However I wasn't charged for the additional time and I paid the original estimate for the work so a big 5* to Wingrove. One worrying fact that came out during a discussion on the C6 with service department was that they scrapped a C6 last year as the front wiring harness was beyond repair and there was no replacement available.... |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
When the timing belt was done I was told that the front, right shocker was leaking but didn't like the quote to replace it..... It passed the MOT a couple of weeks ago as they weren't sure where the oil was from but...... Checking the LDS I have put a litre in and it's still not full, so sourced a new OEM shocker from Phil at Rigbyes and going to get it fitted locally this week. Now I was surprised it was leaking as I read in the service history that a front shocker had been replaced and assumed it was the common failing right hand one but on checking today on the date stamps, it was the left side that was changed as that shocker is dated 2013, the right side is an original as dated from 2007. The new one is dated June 2018 as can be seen in the image below so that you can check your car to see the date of manufacture. BTW, date is on the top section where the sphere and pipe attach.  On the car now: (apologies for the poor quality but the pipes are in the way)  |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
OK new right hand side shocker now fitted. For anyone interested the total cost (shocker from Rigbyes, fitting and 2 litres of LDS locally at Tints N Tweaks came in at £582. The difference in ride quality is markedly improved, no more fore and aft 'floaty' feeling. Plus the suspension reacts to up and down inputs very quickly, no waiting around for anything to happen now, which I assume is because the system no longer needs to build pressure as there are no leaks. 1 car sorted, but the TA needs a gearbox rebuild with a new Crown Wheel and Pinion which is going to cost far more than the Timing Belt Change and Shocker replacement added together........... |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Well the drive down to Little Horwood and back for the 'Chevrons' rally has convinced me (and Mary) to keep the C6 so the 'for sale add' has gone..... It will be going to France for the Citroen 100th next July as long distance cruising is what it was built for and does superbly well
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Eric
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  Member No: #425
Location: Fareham |
Hello Dave, Can't agree more. C6 is meant to be driven on long distance cross-country runs. My travels to and from Munich are so relaxing...... Will you be posting more details about the Citroen 100th next July? Is it a "just turn up event" or do you have to make a booking with the event organiser? Glad you are keeping the C6.... All the Best, Eric. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Eric wrote ... Will you be posting more details about the Citroen 100th next July? Is it a "just turn up event" or do you have to make a booking with the event organiser? For the French event you need to go to the main site: - Click Here - register, then pay a fee to book. There is supposedly an English event, probably in June in Coventry according to TOC Floating Power magazine this month, but details are not finalised on that as yet. |
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