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C6 Autobox reset for the 2.7 HDI

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beep-beep   
Fri Sep 01 2017, 07:43am
Joined: Aug 28 2017
Member No: #3252
Location: Belmullet
Hi all, purchased myself a 2007 C6. So the gearbox got jerky once warmed up so did a flush on it. Sadly this did not fully fix the problem (it is a bit better to be fair). So looking to maybe try a box reset first before I go and try anything more expensive!

So the query is, how do I carry out the reset?

Regards
klu   
Fri Sep 01 2017, 11:42pm
Joined: Sep 10 2016
Member No: #2779
Location: Gliwice
Hi,

You can reset the gearbox oil wear counter only via diagnostic tools like Lexia/Diagbox. But - sorry to say - I don't think it will solve your issues.
AM6 boxes need to have an oil flushed once every 40000 miles. Citroen's instructions don't specify such a procedure, but neglecting it provides to various gearbox failures, which are hard to diagnose without dismantling the gearbox.
I hope you'll have it repaired at low cost.
Trainman   
Sat Sep 02 2017, 06:11am

Joined: Apr 12 2010
Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham
the other issues, is that one flush isn't enough, you only get about 3 litres out at a time, whilst the gearbox holds more (can't remember the amount), The first time you do it, it will take about 3 flushes to get it back to somewhere near normal.
gmerry   
Sat Sep 02 2017, 12:33pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
These AM6 gearboxes never need FLUSHING. Periodically, partial drains and refilling will keep them going fine, at least that is all mine has had over last 9 years. Note its impossible to fully drain out the transmission fluid because a substantial proportion is held in the torque convertor.

These posts dating back to 2011 provide some more details - Click Here -

regards
G
jamescarruthers   
Sat Sep 02 2017, 01:39pm
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Member No: #1548
Location: Cambridge
Gmerry did you ever find out if it was possible to hook up our gearboxes up to a dailysis machine?

Mine had two changes last year but has started feeling a little juddery again at low speed.

I'll be getting it three changes this year but would love to get a full flush to set a good clean baseline then maintain it with a partial change every year at service time.
HiPOL   
Sat Sep 02 2017, 04:14pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
You can flush all oil using special machine, mentioned by jamescarruthers. I did it in my car, just like most of my friends in their cars with AM6 gearbox. It helps to keep gearbox in good shape and is recommended by all gearbox specialists.

The only way to sort of reset gearbox ECU is reseting oil counters mentioned by klu. But you must be aware that this is a traumatic experience for your gearbox.

Doing it with Lexia you can choose 2 options ; partial and full reset (don`t remember specific names at the moment). Using Diagbox you can do only partial.

AM6 is self-adaptive gearbox which is learning all the time, so don`t expect too much after this reset. It probably will help for a short time...
gmerry   
Sun Sep 03 2017, 08:36am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
Hi James, the English language is such that "flushing" sounds so much better than partial changes. But that is just onomatopoeia. In actual fact, the effectiveness will be pretty much the same whether 2 (or 3 ) partial changes or hooking up to a machine. Your gearbox will start generating wear particles immediately it is back in service: also a small amount of dilution of new fluid with old will have no practical ill-effect.

By way of explanation, I refer to hydraulic power machinery practise. Here flushing refers to high flow rate, high Reynolds number pumping, sometimes accompanied by vibration, sometimes full stripdown, always with full flow high specification filters, to eliminate wear and failure particles. The machine hookup that a transmission shop offers is none of these things.

So thinking about it, the advantages of the machine hookup are really for the shop doing the job, because there is less labour/time involved. The downsides are that one can never be certain of the cleanliness of the shop machine, quite apart from finding a shop with the correct adaptors within a convenient distance.

So if partial changes have not cured any problems, the chances of flushing effecting miracle cures will be very low.

regards

jamescarruthers   
Sun Sep 03 2017, 12:33pm
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Member No: #1548
Location: Cambridge
Maybe it's new valve block time for me then after requesting 3 fluid changes at B&L in a month or two.

I've got a big Pella oil extractor, I might have a go myself until it is clean, then get B&L to get the level perfect.
mechcanicolee   
Sun Sep 03 2017, 07:47pm
Joined: Aug 25 2017
Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside
Get the car fully up to temp, drive along at day 50 or 60 mph so the car is in top gear , and drive it as light as you can on the throttle so engine speed is as low as you can get it .......this is to get torque converter and internal oil pump running at as low speed as possible .

Drive along in a this state for a period of time and see if you get a condition called "cattle grid syndrome , or rumble strip syndrome "

If you feel this effect in most cases the box will need a full overall , to much material has come off the forward clutch packs and the oil pressure can not keep the weight on the brake bands so you get this effect of grip / release /grip / release it's just like driving over rumble strips , it's a vicious cycle as more material comes off the plates that blocks the sump strainer and does even more damage.

It's a good test to diagnose the boxes condition , if you are not getting any of these symptoms ....yes it could be sticking solenoids in the valve block causing flare up or harsh shifting patterns
gmerry   
Sun Sep 03 2017, 08:29pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
James, setting the level yourself is easy: just follow the Citroen procedure which is to get to temperature, engine idling, box in neutral, then remove inner plug from the drain weir (standpipe) and wait until you get a drip, drip, drip.

If no flow or drips, shutdown the engine, add another 100mls through the filler and the try again for the drip, drip, drip.


PS, don't use the Pela. You should just use gravity and drain into a calibrated jug. It needs to be a calibrated jug because the qty you remove is the same as what you put back in.

regards
G
jamescarruthers   
Mon Sep 04 2017, 06:11am
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Member No: #1548
Location: Cambridge
Thanks for the advice. I really should do it myself. It's within my capabilities, I just never seem to get round to doing it! (Read: lazy!)
p6rob   
Thu Sep 28 2017, 08:56am
Joined: Sep 20 2017
Member No: #3275
Location: Birmingham
mechcanicolee wrote ...

Get the car fully up to temp, drive along at day 50 or 60 mph so the car is in top gear , and drive it as light as you can on the throttle so engine speed is as low as you can get it .......this is to get torque converter and internal oil pump running at as low speed as possible .

Drive along in a this state for a period of time and see if you get a condition called "cattle grid syndrome , or rumble strip syndrome "

If you feel this effect in most cases the box will need a full overall , to much material has come off the forward clutch packs and the oil pressure can not keep the weight on the brake bands so you get this effect of grip / release /grip / release it's just like driving over rumble strips , it's a vicious cycle as more material comes off the plates that blocks the sump strainer and does even more damage.

It's a good test to diagnose the boxes condition , if you are not getting any of these symptoms ....yes it could be sticking solenoids in the valve block causing flare up or harsh shifting patterns



The C6 I just bought has exactly this 'rumble strip' symptom. Which, until reading this, I thought was suspension related. Looks like there's no getting way from it and the box is in need of some loving. So, I'll be emptying my wallet and it'll be getting an imminent full gearbox rebuild.

Damn you impulse eBay purchase!

Rob
mechcanicolee   
Thu Sep 28 2017, 11:29am
Joined: Aug 25 2017
Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside
Bad news Rob , I'm afraid when the box has got to rumble strip syndrome it's all over
Beware cheap quotes for the job ....with cheap jobs corners will be cut and with auto boxes you just cannot get away with this , new torque converter, any oil coolers and pipe work pressure flushed and to ensure a good job .

I know some guys in Crewe who have been going for donkeys years they are called Autolock , worth a call for a price if you do not have someone in mind already .

I would say expect around the £1200 mark minimum for a professional job .

So much for the 'sealed for life ' gearboxes eh ?
p6rob   
Thu Sep 28 2017, 03:02pm
Joined: Sep 20 2017
Member No: #3275
Location: Birmingham
mechcanicolee wrote ...

Bad news Rob , I'm afraid when the box has got to rumble strip syndrome it's all over
Beware cheap quotes for the job ....with cheap jobs corners will be cut and with auto boxes you just cannot get away with this , new torque converter, any oil coolers and pipe work pressure flushed and to ensure a good job .

I know some guys in Crewe who have been going for donkeys years they are called Autolock , worth a call for a price if you do not have someone in mind already .

I would say expect around the £1200 mark minimum for a professional job .

So much for the 'sealed for life ' gearboxes eh ?


Thanks, at least I know that with regular tlc, it'll last.
I've been quoted 1750 +VAT, which includes new torque converter and valve block and removal and refitting. I'll ask them to flush any external pipework thoroughly. Not sure how that price stacks up but the company have been recommended by a friend who owns a manual gearbox reconditioning business.
mechcanicolee   
Thu Sep 28 2017, 04:05pm
Joined: Aug 25 2017
Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside
Should be a good job for that money , any decent place will have full understanding regards flushing coolers and so on , some places will also do glycol or organic additive antifreeze tests on the oil to see if any cross contamination from water cooled type gear box oil coolers , this often sees auto boxes off ......always have to ask '' why' has it failed , sometimes lack of maintanace ' sometimes other underlying issues.

Big failures on the zf boxes in landrovers and jags are the lock up clutches in the torque converters , the vulcanising breaks away allowing the disc to spin and rub against the casing ....throws loads of metal fillings straight into oil pump .....kills the box in a short time .
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