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Window motor not working |
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sotweedfactor
 
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  Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
For the past two years I've had an intermittent fault where sometimes the LH front passenger window will not drop or otherwise respond to raise/lower commands. After a while (days/weeks) it's come back to life. At present, I have the door stripped to try and figure what is [not] going on. So I now have access to the window motor (and I've even bought a spare second hand one, complete with door controller unit). With the ignition on I can raise/lower the RH front Drivers window OK. But from the LH window there simply comes a 'click' sound from the black controller unit: I guess there is a relay inside it. If I detach the motor from the door (leaving electrical connections in place) I still get the click and the motor does not move even though with no load. Exactly the same behaviour with the spare unit (I hope that they do not BOTH feature exactly the same fault!).  My current guess is that there is some sort of electrical/logical interlock which is preventing the motor from moving. e.g. perhaps there is an incorrect but persistent 'anti-pinch' condition coming from somewhere in the system. All other electrical functions on the door are working OK. Any ideas, speculations, ultimate remedies etc. anyone? |
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mechcanicolee
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  Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside |
See the two pin plug at the bottom of the unit , that will be the heavy supply and earth to the 'outstation ' or controller , that's the first place to start . Test it with a 12 volt 55 watt halogen bulb , just make up a bulb with a fly lead that you can probe into them 2 heavy wires , testing with volt meters or led type test lights is not sufficient...they do not put the circuit under any load , you could test for volt drop on it but I'm trying to keep the diag simple at this point Does the window do the same from the drivers side switch pack aswell as the switch on the passenger door . Have you inspected the wiring at the A post , so many window issues are broken wires in the rubber gator , try to separate each wire a give it a tug as wire often has snapped inside the plastic sleeve and is not obvious to see . |
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sotweedfactor
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Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
Hi, thanks for the suggestions. Is the implication that if the halogen bulb lights then we confirm that 55W is available - which is a rough approximation to what the motor might draw? I get the same 'click' effect from both LH and RH door switches. I will take a look at the A post wiring. Not sure, just jet, how to undo the coupling and have a look. But I guess it's pretty obvious... Cheers, Eric |
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mechcanicolee
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Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside |
Correct , using a bulb you a putting the heavy supply wires under some load , to be honest a 55 watt halogen bulb will pull out about 4.5 amps which will be under what the window motor will pull out , but you will stand a chance of loading the circuit ....using a volt meter does not put it under hardly any load , so it's not proving the supply or earth is ' strong ' | ||
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e3steve
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   Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
sotweedfactor wrote ... ... My current guess is that there is some sort of electrical/logical interlock which is preventing the motor from moving. e.g. perhaps there is an incorrect but persistent 'anti-pinch' condition coming from somewhere in the system. All other electrical functions on the door are working OK. Any ideas, speculations, ultimate remedies etc. anyone? You should try this first... "BSI reboot: Put the driver's window down, Open the boot and ensure all equipment is switched off. Ensure all doors are closed and remove key from the ignition. Wait for 3 minutes, disconnect the vehicle battery and wait 15 seconds. Reconnect the vehicle battery, wait a further 10 seconds (do not open doors.). Switch on the side lights through the driver's window. Switch on the ignition and check system's functionality. Hold down the lock button on key for 10 seconds. Remove key open & close door test central locking system. Start the engine and complete the system's check. Failure to follow this procedure could result in incorrect BSI operation." |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
As Lee states: loading the supply evaluates the circuit and will reveal any resistive path. A DMM possesses a very high 'ohms-per-volt' internal impedance, thus it will merely reveal the presence of 12+VDC, which could simply be there via device hysteresis, just 'hanging around' until it becomes 'dissipated' (dumped) by a load on the supply. Your 55W headlight bulb provides that load; testing for healthy, non-decaying voltage under such a load 'proves' the supply circuit. THINGS TO REMEMBER
*This procedure should be:
Reconnection of the battery also has a recommended procedure: "Close the doors, driver's window down. Reconnect the vehicle battery, wait 10 seconds (do not open doors.). Switch on the side lights through the driver's window. Switch on the ignition and check system's functionality. Hold lock button down on key for 10 seconds. Remove key open & close door test central locking system. Start the engine and complete the system's check. Failure to follow this procedure could result in incorrect BSI operation." |
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sotweedfactor
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Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
Hi Steve, thanks for your suggestions. I've tried the battery-disconnect-BSI-reset procedure several times throughout this prolonged window-winder saga. It makes no difference: still no window movement. | ||
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
sotweedfactor wrote ... Hi Steve, thanks for your suggestions. I've tried the battery-disconnect-BSI-reset procedure several times throughout this prolonged window-winder saga. It makes no difference: still no window movement. Just looked at your door image, in close-up; looks like the window motor has suffered a moisture attack! Not sure if they're the same, but you could see if the l/h rear motor ass'y fits, then try that in its place... |
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sotweedfactor
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Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
Thanks Steve. With the controller removed from the motor unit, I've bench-tested the motor with a 12V probe running off a another cars battery. It turns OK in both directions. So motor itself appears to be OK. I then connected the controller ONLY (without the motor) to the door wiring with a Digital Multi-meter connected to the two probes that deliver power to the motor from the controller. When commanded to raise/lower the window, I get TWO clicks [on-then-off] from the controller and a brief flash of 12V being delivered. I assume that this is the anti-pinch circuitry kicking in since the magnetic rotation detector probe (extended piece of circuit board pictured below) cant detect the magnet on the motor shaft.  With the motor and controller re-united, but the whole unit hanging free and unattached to the door, I get a single click from the controller but no movement from the motor. Prime suspect, now, is that insufficient power is being delivered to turn the motor (as suggested to me earlier in the thread). The evidence is mounting: does that sound like a reasonable conclusion? I'm loathe to try the 55W halogen lamp test suggested earlier for fear, indeed, of spooking the CANBus. The connector concerned, which has two thicker leads, certainly delivers some power as relay sounds are heard in the controller when you connect/disconnect it. If that power is not being delivered directly from the battery but, maybe, via the BSI, then I'm not sure that i should be putting non-standard loads/signals on it. Am I being over-cautious, nay, paranoid? I think my attention now needs to turn to the door hinge and the state of the door loom connectors. |
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mechcanicolee
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Member No: #3249
Location: Merseyside |
The heavy supplies most likely are not in can network they are independent , think of this , the heavy supplies are what power the motor , the switching signals are on the can network , a halogen bulb will not take half of what the motor takes . I do tests like this on can networked cars every week ... near enough everyday , can, Lin and van networks are pretty strong as a rule , I seen reverse polarity cases that have melted battery cables and yet ecms and networks still fine . Biggest thing for blowing stuff is people using power probes and running positives up negative lines blowing board tracks and so on . |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Just to clarify, this was a common problem on the C4 MK1 and was often down to a faulty switch on the drivers side as they are connected so don't confine your investigations to the passenger side only. | ||
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HiPOL
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Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów |
My friend had similar problem. Reason was short circuit of windows steering panel illumination at BSI plugs. | ||
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sotweedfactor
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Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
Thanks to e3steve for telling me how to unfasten the A pillar wiring connectors (see separate thread). It's blindingly obvious once you know how. On separating the connectors and reconnecting, I noticed some movement from the window (every time the controller regains power, it causes the window to drop a little for safety's sake). A good start, but with the connectors fully reconnected, the window would still not operate. However, it indicated that there was some intermittency in the connections being made.  The rubber boot on the door side can easily be pulled back to reveal the wires. No sign of broken/disconnected wires or insulation  So, with battery disconnected, I blasted each side of the connector several times with contact cleaner and plugged/unplugged the two halves of the connector several times in the hope of dislodging any corrosion build up on the contacts. Result is that I now have full functionality restored to the door and windows. I hope this condition will last for some length of time! Now all I have to do is replace the door card etc. So, to those who follow with similar symptoms, I might suggest firstly checking the door connector. In fact, it might be a worthwhile preventative service procedure on all cars (once every few years) to disconnect/reconnect all of the door connectors. My thanks to those of you who have contributed to this and related threads: much appreciated. |
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rabenson
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Member No: #2632
Location: Northallerton N Yorks |
Out of interest, what make of contact cleaner did you use as I know that some can melt plastics... I am suffering from exactly this problem and am keen to try your solution! |
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sotweedfactor
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Member No: #2185
Location: Surrey |
I've been using 'WD-40' branded contact cleaner. No melting noticed so far... Sorry for slow reply! |
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