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Automatic transmission gearbox shunt |
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Wantathreelitre
 
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  Member No: #3179
Location: Forest Town |
This occasional, but nevertheless shocking habit my car had, has not happened again since the transmission fluid was changed. The gearbox is smoother and 1,200 miles on, no sign yet of the gearbox shudder i so dreaded happening. It would happen 3-4 times a day before, so i say that the ''lifetime'' oil that Citroen reckon they supply when new should actually be dumped every 50,000 miles or so. I see that the same gearbox in Range Rovers has an oil change schedule, which makes far more sense. The first time we drained the available 3 litres off, it was like black water. I am damn sure that liquid like that won't do the same job the new stuff we put in will. After 3 changes of 3 litres, it's almost like having a brand new gearbox. Nice. | ||
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gmerry
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   Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Quote "I see that the same gearbox in Range Rovers has an oil change schedule" Sorry mate, don't know from where you got this mis-information. The AM6 gearbox is strictly front wheel drive only. |
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Wantathreelitre
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Member No: #3179
Location: Forest Town |
I was told that one of the Range Rover/Land Rover models uses this gearbox. The point remains though, that the oil should be changed, as proven by the state of the liquid that came out and the improvements noticed after fresh oil was put in. | ||
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Wantathreelitre wrote ... ....... so i say that the ''lifetime'' oil that Citroen reckon they supply when new should actually be dumped every 50,000 miles or so. A very experienced DS/SM/C6 specialist reckons that changing the auto box oil at 20-30,000 miles should be the real world maintenance target if you want to preserve it's working life. |
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Ciaran
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Member No: #3087
Location: . |
With the XM autos and their ridiculous 'sealed for life' boxes, "life" according to Mr Citroen equated to anywhere between 80 and 130K miles. Its not uncommon to see people changing the ATF on those every 3-5000 miles to preserve their lives, some are still going strong at around 200k. I drove a 180K TCT auto for a week or so, which had had that frequency of treatment the whole way along and the box was still silky smooth. A hell of a lot more died a death at 100k or before though because they never saw a fluid change from one decade to the next. That said, Dex II is cheap, a hell of a lot cheaper than the fluid used by the C6 box. But then you have to weigh up whats more expensive in the long term, frequent fluid changes at around the 100 quid mark (even cheaper if you have the facilities to do it yourself), or a box rebuild / replacement. Maybe I'm paranoid because of the fragility of the ZF boxes if not pampered, but I wouldn't feel comfortable waiting anything like 20k for a fluid change on the C6, nevermind 30. I just changed mine and will probably do so again in ~5k. The fear could be misplaced of course, the AM box and the modern fluids are obviously much more advanced (and perhaps more resilient). |
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cruiserphil
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 Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Ciaran, When I bought my auto XM I was advised to change the fluid every second service which I did. That transmission went on with a friend to 250000 plus miles before he sold it. On the AW box fitted to our cars, the consensus is that the box itself is bulletproof but lack/absence of oil change gets the solenoid block resulting in jerky/slipping shifts. Some forum members have had these replaced where oil flush did not solve poor shifting, resulting in a return to normal shifting. Replacement blocks are only of the order of hundreds. If you search, GMerry posted a link to a very detailed description of the wear on the solenoid block by a transmission overhaul company. Nevertheless, I believe in the regular flushing to avoid reaching this problem, but at least there's comfort for anyone whose car develops this problem and oil flushing doesn't work. Best regards, Phil C. |
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Wantathreelitre
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Member No: #3179
Location: Forest Town |
Seems people agree that the lifetime oil thing is daft. | ||
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cruiserphil
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Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Definitely WT3L! And halving the 20000 mile engine oil change interval. Best regards, Phil C. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
cruiserphil wrote ... And halving the 20000 mile engine oil change interval. Citroen themselves did that a couple of years back with new cars now requiring a 10,000 mile or annual service....... |
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e3steve
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 Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Logic dictates that Citroën only ever gave the C6 a life-expectancy of around 80k. Let's just consider what starts to fall apart at those miles; many of us already know... So why would they not state that the 'box is "sealed for life"? Let's be pragmatic: according the the Fifth Gear episode in which my very own 2.7 was shot at, Tom Ford reiterated that even Citroën themselves were convinced that on-one was going to buy a C6. However, once the C6 is through its menopause (and is maintained thus) then it can provide further miles/years of service and enjoyment. I bought a (new) Sierra Sapphire Cosworth in 1989 -- Jan 10th, in fact; F500 RBP -- and was horrified to learn that it would require a complete engine rebuild at around 80,000 miles! At least we don't need to go that far! |
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Hattershaun
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 Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
Whilst I agree changing the gearbox can only be a good thing, I do know of a high mileage C6 that has not had its oil changed. My auto gearbox cars get their oil changed frequently, at the same time as the engine oil change, 5000-6000 miles or annually. Robert at B.L.Autos has a C6 2.7HDi with 298,000 miles on it. One owner from new until earlier this year, substantial file of invoices for all the routine servicing, maintenance and repairs, but not one single mention of gearbox oil ever being changed, so you have to assume the gearbox is still running its original oil. I've driven this car some distance (100 miles) and the gearbox behaves exactly as you would expect, nice and smooth, no slipping, no jerking. |
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Wantathreelitre
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Member No: #3179
Location: Forest Town |
That's the exception that proves the rule. The oil in my gearbox after 68,800 miles was like black water and that cannot be great for the internals. That car you mentioned works despite the awful oil not because of it. |
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josok
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 Member No: #1222
Location: Ukonjärventie 141 99800 Ivalo |
Yes, well here's another exception. 367.000 km now, and no gearbox oil change. Next time i am closer to a gearbox oil changing facility, i will have it changed anyhow. |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
josok wrote ... Yes, well here's another exception. 367.000 km now, and no gearbox oil change. At 228,000 miles that shows how reliable they can actually be. |
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Wantathreelitre
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Member No: #3179
Location: Forest Town |
I will stick with changing all fluids every so often and spark plugs on petrol cars. | ||
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