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Judgement time ? |
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onthecut
 
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  Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids |
Given their overall scarcity there seem to be a staggering number of C6 for sale at the minute. 22 on that well known internet auction site; a steady (relative) stream around the car auctions plus whatever ones are on Autotrader and forecourts --- yes, I know there may be some duplication. Given their age I suspect we are seeing owners move them on before feared or expensive jobs become an issue, plus of course, for some people, they will just be too old to be seen in. Once the glut has passed, I wonder if we will then start to see whether they are going to shape up as a model with a definite residual value based on scarcity, enthusiasm etc., or will go the way of the XM ? As I recall, the XM was also once star of the show yet now they definitely seem to languish in the banger prices department, with the oddest of exceptions. I wouldn't want a big bet on it, but I think there is a chance the C6 might actually make the grade; it's one of only two out of goodness knows how many cars I've owned that people actually stop or turn round to look at; something the XM never achieved. Mike. |
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Leo
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 Member No: #94
Location: Belfast |
Mike The problem with "modern" cars is a common one - certain components (electrical, fuel injection, ABS braking etc.)are pretty much incapable of repair. When they fail, they need complete replacement. Once the cost of replacement rivals the value of the car then the inevitable decision (for most people) leads to the scrapyard. Unfortunate, but there you go. Older, simpler cars can be kept on the road with much less difficulty and expense. That said, I would struggle to replace my C6 with anything as enjoyable and so I will be running mine until something "big" lets go. Leo |
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bargi
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  Member No: #2590
Location: London |
I'd have to agree on the number up for sale of late and I think you're right on the "expensive jobs" The majority for sale are close to approaching or have hit the 100k miles and also most are starting to come up to the 10 year mark. |
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JPV
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 Member No: #606
Location: Norwich |
We have just parted with our C6 after 5+ year’s ownership; it had done approaching 33000 miles. It was in great condition with a full service history, 2 owners and a pile of additional bills. It was those bills that were the downfall, in the past 12 months over £3000.00 of unexpected parts failure covering steering, suspension and electronics. The car was mostly used on long journeys so not overly stressed. We have often asked ourselves why parts failed with such regularity and guess that it was due to the “parts bin” available to the production engineers containing items that did not have sufficient reserve to handle such a heavy car, nor sufficient development experience available in such a short production run. The parts, when used in other Peugeot/Citroen products did not fail anywhere near as often. The depressing thing is the knowledge that replacing a part with a new one only indicates that it will fail again in the near future, so not a recipe for many being on the road in 7 years time. |
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gmerry
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  Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Must admit to a mild disagreement with JPV's post. I don't see anything on the C6 which is too weak (not strong enough) for the C6's weight. The cooling system parts are poor, especially the thermostat housing but that would be the same no matter what PSA installation the engine was in. Nothing to do with the car's weight. Probably the £3000 repairs would be down to lack of use and over-charging by the repairer. No need for replacement parts to fail with regularity if properly fitted by someone who knows what they are doing. Sorry you had such a poor experience regards G PS, I think the next few years will be great if it clears out some of the poorly maintained cars: after that they will mostly be owned by long term owners rather than those just wanting a cheap big car. |
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onthecut
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Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids |
The one I recently acquired came with a sheaf of Citroen dealer large bills amounting to thousands. Sure, some were for 'ptoper' stuff -- lower front arms; brake discs / pads, alternator etc., but others were for things I cannot envisage why you would go anywhere near the dealer -- such as tyres. These were getting on twice the real world price for the identical item. By way of amusement, I enquired at Citroen about the cost of a replacement headlamp bulb --- £140 !! So, I agree with the previous post that some bills are probably suffering a dealer inflation factor. I also think the Friday afternoon factor is alive and well. We have two near identical facelift C5 in the household, with not six months between the build dates. The one, which we acquired with 80k odd on the clock has never felt 'tight', despite full and correct maintenance and fairly regularly throws up jobs to keep us amused. The other one, similar mileage, feels like a new car and with the exception of tired P bushes when we had it and regular 'ordinary' maintenance has been a model of reliability. Important too to remember this is not just a Citroen thing. A friend of mine is well into German cars; ask him about the crumbling plastics on BMW engines; disintegrating engine bits on Merc; duff aircon on Audi. We are not alone. I think the C6 has definitely got that special something that sets it aside from the mass of other cars, in which case hopefully we will end up with a good number of surviving examples as time goes by. Mike. |
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FreakyFrenchFan
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 Member No: #2057
Location: Bicester |
I think the C6 will become a collectable classic over time for a simple reason- It represents the end of an era for Citroen. It's the last car Citroen made that encompasses everything that made Citroen famous. Obviously the only ones that will go on to significantly appreciate in value will be the mint ultra low milers. | ||
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321dave
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Member No: #614
Location: Dublin |
Here's a few for collecting now! Happy new year to everybody. - Click Here - |
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
So far (120 000km on the clock, myself 90 000 of them) I am absolutely on the positive side. Premium cars usually have lower reliability and very expensive parts and labour. In this setting my C6 is a positive surprise of low cost and few problems The heavy load on standard parts is true in theory, but most of the parts I have changed (front suspension struts and front lower FRIP joints)are *a usual problem on all cars they are used (C5 III, C6) *Improved in the versions that are now used *Not very expensive (but see below !) Then there are some small irritating problems : *Floor mat under my heel only lasting 2 years *Wheel bearings not lasting long (Changed 7 times) but most of them paid by Citroen *The RT5 radio/Nav box have some HDD problems (but OK for now) Generally parts have been low priced, same level as the smaller Citroens. But new ownership of Citroen dealership in Norway is now making parts 2-3 times as expensive, the future might see Alfa or Mercedes level prices Problems will come in the future: EGR (usual on all modern diesels), cooling system and suspension parts. Probably the conclusion is that that the C6 is reliable and not expensive to run, taking into account that it as absolutely a premium level car and a classic made in small numbers (with care and extra quality procedures) |
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Kaloteck
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 Member No: #1271
Location: Warsaw |
JPV wrote ... The parts, when used in other Peugeot/Citroen products did not fail anywhere near as often. To which parts exactly are you referring to ? |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Kalotek, I'm the same as you, completely at a loss to list which parts JPV is referring to, as being not strong enough for the "weight" of the C6. regards |
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arconell3
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  Member No: #922
Location: Kalkar |
First of all a happy new year to all C6 fans and family! Gina collector cars is obviously a Dutch seller. The 2 C6'es are advertised with an exceptionally low mileage, which makes one wonder: to me that appears rather unrealistic. It looks like the 2,7 came from Germany or at least from a German speaking country, since the RT3 display shows German text. The 3,0 petrol probably has had its front end damaged, since the plastic rad cover under the hood lacks the 2 stickers. Considering all that, the asking prices are, well, somewhat inflated? As for longevity, my 2008 2,7 now has clocked 210.000 kms, 130.000 miles, and runs like a dream. At 200.000 the cam belt was replaced, and the water pipe and and thermostat housing were replaced before they could cause problems. All suspension parts are still the ex-works pieces and in good shape, TÜV (MOT) approved again 3 months ago. Still, original brake parts are expensive and so are fuel filters and other consumables. Additionally, the extra work every 20.000 kms, for checking and adjusting ride height (which is always done on my instigation) doesn't lower the ownership costs either. Being mostly moved on German roads I would guess that on average she probably moves faster than her UK counterparts. On longer journeys on motorways I tend to maintain speeds of between 90-110 mph. I find my C6 very reliable, reasonably economical, and in terms of maintenance and repairs affordable. But above all, she is a beauty and a dream to drive. Ps: Together with a couple of friends in both Germany and Holland, we started a new C6 website, which, although completely in German and Dutch, does contain a large photo section with hundreds of photo's and video's, taken at various C6-events. So by all means, have a look if you feel like it! - Click Here - Regards, Robert |
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onthecut
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Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids |
Hi Robert. Interesting points. Just on a very minor thing --- filter prices. Filters are one of the items I have no qualms about using aftermarket if it's a reputable name, particularly as any filter you buy from Citroen will have been made by someone else anyway. I found here in the UK that it was only the air filter that was slightly tricky as it's a very limited application range and that came in at about £15. The oil and fuel were very reasonable, mainly I guess because they are simple filter elements rather than the ludicrous assemblies (fuel) used on the C5 and other PSA vehicles. Nice to see that the 2.7 has a decent sized oil filter, compared to the tiddlers they use on the 2.0 and 2.2 HDi. The influence of Mr. Land Rover, perhaps ? Mike. |
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Bishop
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 Member No: #868
Location: Harpenden |
On the JPV post, it could well be that he and I are less well factually and statistically informed than others here, or, it could just be that PSA components are just generally of inferior quality compared to other marques (albeit my Xsara Picasso provides very different evidence, it being very reliable), but I hold a similar sense to his about the cause of a number of part failures I have experienced on this car that I have NEVER had before on other high mileage cars. So, wheel bearings, lower suspension arms, bent stub axle, splitting suspension struts, a number of worn bushes having been replaced, in some cases more than once. Also, the wretched ABS/ ASR sensors at the rear seem very vulnerable, but that could be more about the packaging, rather than the weight. My car has just topped 108k. Interestingly, I have not been advised for the need to replace suspension spheres yet (by Robert at BL Autos), so it tends to feel like it's the basic PSA chassis/ platform components that are at issue/ not robust enough, not the 'traditional' oleopneumatic bits. Interestingly, I understand that later models (post the '89 refresh) received uprated components in some suspension areas (don't ask me to name them, I am repeating comments read in a number of pubiclications) which would suggest that Citroen belatedly recognised weaknesses in some original parts. So, if the added weight of the C6 over the C5/ 407, etc. sharing the same basic platform is not the issue, is it just that PSA engineered, or sourced its components on the cheap? Just for the record, as you know, I love my C6 and could not be parted with it 18 months ago, even though I had decided that I could no longer rely on it to manage my daily 130 mile round trip commute. I'd love to wholeheartedly recommend them to people who approach me asking whether they should buy one, or not, but I have to be realistic as they may well not have as understanding a wife, family and 'Bank Manager' as I, and I have my own reputation as a sane person to preserve. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Bishop, it would be interesting if you could post links to the other articles that you refer to. Regarding suspension system "weaknesses", the worst issue that I can see is the poor sealing of the FRIP joint which can easily be cured by replacing with the later swivel which has better sealing or by adding a cheap grease injection point - something I'm sure BL Autos could arrange The rest of the suspension is robust enough, save maybe the lower rear wishbone bush, which in any case is a rubber component and not too expensive or hard to change. Wheel bearings are a special case and I would be surprised if any ever failed because they were "worn out". I suspect that incompetent maintenance is increasingly a major part of any problems - in this category I would put the bent stub axle as this mythical part does not even exist on the (front of ) FWD C6. Rear ABS sensors are just normal commercial quality sensors, same as used on pretty much every other car made on Europe of this age. Maybe the issues here are just too much rust and ferrous contamination, this can hardly be blamed on engineering or procurement policies at PSA. Overall, almost every car on the road has weakness or foibles and with a little knowledge and preemptive maintenance these can be dealt with. I'm not sure that the C6 is suffering from "cheap" components or ones that are too weak for the car. Anyhow, enjoy the car for what it is, when its running. regards |
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