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Help! Suspension stuck in low :-(
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robingc33   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 01:29pm
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 My 2006 2.7HDi has been running perfectly and today, foolishly I decided to do a little preventative maintenance and replace the standard clip securing the pipe on the bottom of the LDS tank with a Jubilee type clip since this pipe union weeps a little and I know it's a common issue.

I needed to raise the car a little to get at the front/under wheel-arch liner fixings and gain access to the LDS pipe fixing behind - and also thought I should depressurise the suspension before loosening the old clip.

So I put a low jack under the driver's side (whilst sitting at around the normal ride height) and then put the suspension on "low"; the car subsiding apart from at the driver's front corner as I expected - BUT - this was shortly followed by a significant dripping noise underneath - and on opening the bonnet LDS fluid was pouring out of the breather in the reservoir cap

I tried putting the car back on "High", but it wouldn't rise.

Eventually I managed to get the car off the jack and back on level ground; still totally "sunk" - meantime fluid was still coming out of the breather though not so fast.

After mopping it up for a while I dared to take the cap off and sucked out excess fluid till it was back to the normal filling level in the bottom of the filler "basket".

Prior to all this I know the fluid had been at the correct level for some time and as a wild guess I'd say about a litre overflowed - tho difficult to tell - a little goes a long way!

I've tried changing the height to all levels, but it won't rise. I added a little fluid back to ensure it's at the nominal level (tho probably not as much as was lost) but it makes no difference. I've moved the car a little, tried bouncing/rocking it, but to no avail and the fluid level in the reservoir seems unaffected by any height settings (which I suppose it would if the car doesn't rise!)

I've got a Diagbox/Lexi clone but am not an expert with it and wondered if I depressurise it using that it might help? (but don't know where to find it in the menus). Maybe there are other things I could check (if I can find them!).

At present I'm thinking...
Could it be an air lock?
I've checked the "Suspension" fuse G33 in Box B - which is fine.

So, if anyone has any suggestions on how to solve this problem I'd much appreciate your advice please.

...and I wish I'd ignored that pipe joint

Thanks,
Robin
gmerry   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 02:35pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 I suspect you have a ruptured saucer diaphragm. Was there a brownish look to the over-flowing LDS? If yes, that would be the nitrogen bubbles coming out of solution. I'd suggest depressurising the suspension (with chocks under the jacking points), and then start by replacing both front corner saucers. Then refilled, check that the suspension pump is running etc.

Regards
G
cruiserphil   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 04:27pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Hello Robin,

On the fluid leakage it could be that there was too much LDS in the system and it was expelled when you lowered the car. Normally no fluid is visible in the tank filler regardless of car level. The official level check is when the hydraulic system is depressurised using Lexia/Diagbox or the manual methods. Technically if you filled to the level in low position there is too much fluid!!

Your car not rising is another issue. As G says have a listen if your suspension pump is running. If not, I'd try a battery disconnect and reconnect to reboot the ECU.

Let us know how you get on.

Best regards,

Phil C.
robingc33   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 08:07pm
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 Thanks both for the rapid suggestions.

G: I presume "saucers" = spheres for an ancient LHM person like me?
The fluid looked pretty normal to me - a golden colour; it was partially refilled recently when I had a leaky strut changed for the MoT, so it's not totally ancient anyway.
I'll check the pump tomorrow and battery disconnection sounds a good (and relatively simple) plan worth trying in case the suspension ECU has got itself in a twist.

Phil: I guess I've misunderstood this top-up level in the past - you're saying the LDS level can only be checked with the system totally depressurised via Lexia - as opposed to when the suspension is set "Low" which is what I (wrongly) thought.
I note that the car looks lower now than I've ever seen it before (lower than the normal "Low" height setting), in which case, as you say, I've overfilled it previously and that explains where the extra (overflowing) fluid has come from now it has totally sunk Derrr !

That probably also explains why I've had a slight misting of LDS fluid around the filler cap on occasions.

Thanks again,
Robin

(PS: Bring back LHM systems, all is forgiven! - when I think back to how much I messed about with those systems in CXs and GSA - and mostly felt like I understood it!)
gmerry   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 08:42pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Hi Robing, You can forget the ruptured diaphragm possibility because if it happens, the fluid has so many micro bubbles, it looks positively brown/dirty.

Best of luck
G
321dave   
Mon Oct 10 2016, 08:48pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
 Hi Robin,
don't worry! Your not the first and you won't be the last to fill to the wrong level. To be honest PSA don't want these systems to be understood properly. I've done this myself. I think if you follow Phils advice and try first the reset from the battery you'll find it should be fine as well.

I've seen this happen before, where the pump (electric whirring sound) when you unlock in the morning won't activate at all. All goes quite. What you could do if your ok with using your lexia is plug it in and depressurise the system and follow the 3 min timing sequence to the end. Again get plenty of rags or clothe to get ready to soak up the overfill of LDS at the tank. When you go through this procedure the pump will usually restart as normal and the C6 will slowly pressurise again and rise to the low setting.

Best of luck
Dan595   
Tue Oct 11 2016, 09:21am
Joined: Nov 26 2010
Member No: #299
Location: Wiltshire
 cruiserphil and 321dave are right about the level. You should never see any LDS in the tank unless the system is depressurised fully using the bleed screw or Lexia. If you do top up (so you can see it in the basket) the fluid when the suspension is in 'low' setting, it will overflow when depressurised.

It's not clear from your original post if you put the suspension on low or if you depressurised completely. If depressurisation has occurred, it takes a long time to re-pressurise to bring the car up. These minutes seem like hours when it seems the car will never rise again - waaaaay longer than it takes on something like a GSA.

The re-pressurisation sequence calls for a means of pressurising the LDS tank - I made a device using a schrader valve and a spare cap. But I have re-pressurised without this and to be honest it didn't seem to make any difference. However, remembering the trick on the GSA to prime the pump by taking the feed hose off the tank and filling it before reconnecting, the pressure cap may be help avoid a similar problem.

If it won't pressurise at one end (front or back) only, suspect the bleed screw or the height corrector/heigh corrector linkage.

Next time, depressurise the LDS tank by removing the cap before jacking the car. Although only stated as essential when having two or more wheels hanging, good practice to do it whenever working on the suspension.

Good luck.
robingc33   
Tue Oct 11 2016, 10:54am
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 Thanks for that Dan.
I hadn't totally depressurised the system when this happened; I just put it on "Low".

This morning there was no noise from the pump when I opened the car (there hasn't been since this incident yesterday).

I then ran Diagbox, found the depressurisation section and depressurised the system properly via the 3min procedure, at which point a little more excess fluid came out of the reservoir (and I removed further excess to get it down to the proper level mark in the tank).

As instructed by Diagbox I then turned off the ignition, waited over a minute, disconnected the battery and reconnected it a few minutes later.

Sadly there was no sound from the pump and no sign of the car rising, even after several minutes - and trying all the height selections

So... even if it needs pressuring as per your suggestion Dan, shouldn't I still hear the pump trying to pump fluid? Or is it inhibited in some circumstances.

How about the Maxi Fuse I've read about associated with the pump - should I check that?

I also ran the Global Test and it came up with two errors related to the suspension - firstly the usual steering column error which I always get when I run diagnostics, but also "U1116" which says..

From: "Distant"
Status: "Intermittent"
Fault Characterisation: "Protocol controller not functional"

I couldn't find it listed in the error codes on this site - so I'm not sure what it really means - or if it's relevant to this problem?

Any further thoughts would be very welcome please.

Thanks once again,
Robin
321dave   
Tue Oct 11 2016, 11:19am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
 Hi Robin,
i found a reference to the U1116 code you mention from a previous post on the forum by Retired_dave : - Click Here -



Briefly states:
U1116 - No tech doc but: Absence of communication on the CAN with the suspension ECU.

Robin, have you started the car yet and let it idle? forgot to ask.
robingc33   
Tue Oct 11 2016, 07:18pm
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 Thanks again Dave.

Yes I ran the car for about 15-20mins after reconnection of the battery without any luck.

Re the error code - that's interesting - I wonder if the oil overflow got into the suspension ECU connector (assuming the ECU is under the reservoir and the connector is the big one accessible in front/underneath the reservoir? It certainly ran over the outside covering.

On the other hand, depressurisation worked OK and the dashboard messages are quite normal re height adjustments; it just doesn't move!

So maybe I'd better check that Maxifuse next, then disconnect the battery again and clean that ECU connector!?

Thanks,
Robin
cruiserphil   
Tue Oct 11 2016, 09:05pm

Joined: Jan 24 2010
Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge
 Robin,
Good observation about the fluid overflow and subsequent loss of pump operation. I would follow your suggested next steps.

Best regards,
Phil C.
robingc33   
Wed Oct 12 2016, 01:14pm
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 The good news and the bad (expensive) news (situation normal for a C6!)...

I've found the problem; the Suspension ECU connection proved to be fine and dry, but the suspension pump Maxi fuse had blown.

I fitted two 40A replacement fuses and they both blew.

I then tried a 60A fuse - which didn't blow, but I realised every time I put the height selector on "upwards" the engine speed reduced slightly and the interior light dimmed and, on looking under the bonnet, there was smoke coming from the electic pump motor!!!

So, the pump motor is no more!

I must admit I find it hard to believe it just died for no really drastic reason; the car's only done 55k, though it is 10yrs old. Oh happy days with CXs. My reservoir drain pipe clip replacement has turned out to be a bit more than just a £2 Jubilee clip!!! Grrrr. But ho-hum, etc. it's a C6 and it's only money!?

I've read about the possibility of replacing just the electric motor after bumper removal, tho I'm not too keen to fit a secondhand part, particularly if they're suspect lifetime-wise. I don't want to do it twice!

Duff Morgan have just quoted me £855.36+VAT for the complete pump assembly (including a C6Owners discount).

Not sure if I've got the willpower to do it myself at present anyway (it's not long since I had tjhe front bumper off to replace the grill) - I'll get some quotes and think about it - assuming I can get it to the garage!

Ho hum - C6s are lovely - I think?

But thanks again everyone for you help with this - much appreciated.

Robin
robingc33   
Wed Oct 12 2016, 01:18pm
Joined: Aug 25 2015
Member No: #2303
Location: NW Essex
 PS: Duff Morgan also said you need to buy a pipe (costing £89.24 + VAT) to go with pump replacement - and it has to be coded/adapted to the individual car by the dealer that fits it!).

Does anyone know anything about this pipe please?
321dave   
Wed Oct 12 2016, 01:58pm
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
 Hi Robin,
I was afraid to even consider mentioning that problem. Very sorry the pump has gone in the end. I had the pump on my old phase 1 C5 go on me, so i know the cost and pain your feeling! I think somebody on the forum maybe e3steve fitted or tryed a retro fit from a secondhand C5 pump, apparently they are similar in part to the older 2005-07 C5.
Hattershaun   
Wed Oct 12 2016, 03:41pm
Joined: Dec 19 2010
Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
 You may want to speak to Robert at B.L.Autos, in Welwyn Garden City.
Tel: 01707 327555
If you have breakdown cover, this may get your car moved to a workshop.
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