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Rattly 2.7 -- how typical ?
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onthecut   
Tue Sep 20 2016, 11:49am
Joined: Sep 20 2016
Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids
 First post, so apologies if this has been done before. Have finally decided I really must scratch the C6 itch and get one while they are relatively common in the used market.

First one I looked at sounded sufficiently like a bag of spanners to make it an easy decision to walk away. The one I'm looking at now is more tricky. It's a poor starter -- several seconds cranking --- and when it does fire up, there is an indefinable knock / rattle. If it has hydraulic tappets, it may be the noise empty tappets make. Alternatively, it could be a very light bearing knock. It disappears after about 15 seconds running. As with many of the available ones, this is around the 90k miles mark.

What I need to know is whether this is typical of the 2.7 and ignorable, or whether it is symptomatic of serious issues ahead ? I have spoken to different people who say the 2.7 has bottom end issues. Is that right and if so, what are they ? Having had numerous bombproof four cylinder HDi versions in other models, it is disappointing to be thinking they may have spoiled an otherwise lovely car with a less than A1 engine.

Any thoughts or info most welcome.

Thanks, Mike.
Trainman   
Tue Sep 20 2016, 02:58pm

Joined: Apr 12 2010
Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham
 First things first

No it's not typical at all. if it has a rattle then there is something wrong, There are plenty of members around the midlands who I'm sure would be more than happy to help in your search.
Cisco   
Tue Sep 20 2016, 06:23pm
Joined: Sep 10 2013
Member No: #1429
Location: Glasgow
 Hi Mike,

A rattly engine is a little subjective, especially when it is a diesel, however if it goes away after 15 secs or so it is unlikely to be a bearing. You need to listen to a few more I think but as a rule of thumb, when in doubt, leg it

With respect to the slow starting, I think there are quite a few threads on here indicating that this is systematic of the starter being on the way out. My car had its starter replaced around 95k by the previous owner as it was getting slower and slower to start. He paid £500 for the work including the new starter.

Good luck with your search.

Frank
gmerry   
Tue Sep 20 2016, 07:41pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 A 2.7 HDi that has been properly maintained (regular documented oil changes especially) should be good for 100s of thousands of miles. Walk away from one that hasn't been properly maintained.

regards
G
travlician   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 03:16am
Joined: Jan 22 2011
Member No: #350
Location: Paradera
 Rattle during startup can also be a symptom of defect glow plugs, the engine needs some post-heating even in warmer periods. Typical rattle the first 10-15 seconds.
321dave   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 10:24am
Joined: Sep 09 2011
Member No: #614
Location: Dublin
 Hi Onthecut, could you post a youtube link to a brief video of the startup and running sounds of the C6 your interested in? I know this might not be so straightforward, especially if you're only looking and testing cars at the moment.
We could then try and help better. Its much easier to listen and understand, as words in this case are not descriptive enough! Thanks.
HiPOL   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 11:14am
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
travlician wrote ...

Rattle during startup can also be a symptom of defect glow plugs, the engine needs some post-heating even in warmer periods. Typical rattle the first 10-15 seconds.

Glow plugs in summer ? I`m afraid not. If you know something specific for this engine please share it with us.
onthecut   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 11:36am
Joined: Sep 20 2016
Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids
 Many thanks to everyone for the input. The starter does sound ropey, but it's the chicken and egg question --- is it ropey because it's wearing out with excess use, or is it starting badly because the starter is ropey ?

As it happens, I had worked my way round to wondering about the glow plugs.

The whole question of walking away or paying more etc. seems very tricky to me, when it comes to a C6. Many are approaching the 100k mark and even with correct servicing, there seems to me to be the elephant in the room of the 'sealed for life' gearbox, which by definition won't have been serviced.

I am tending at present, unless I trip over a nice 3.0ltr (ho, ho), to think a car that may have some 'in your face' issues at a lower price may be a better toe in the water than nominally OK ones at a higher price which have been serviced but had nothing of consequence replaced and which may have issues just around the corner. There's not much we don't have the facilities to tackle ourselves, so third party labour costs aren't really a factor.

On a different note, is anyone out there offering classic insurance on C6 yet ? I know they are in theory too new, but being such a scarce item it wouldn't seem unreasonable to me.

Mike.
onthecut   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 11:46am
Joined: Sep 20 2016
Member No: #2793
Location: West Mids
 PS.

HiPol --- I think Travlician is right --- quite a few engines use the glow plugs in the first few seconds of running to aid combustion in a cold (in terms of normal running temperature) cylinder. They don't necessarily light up the glow plug indicator lamp, but may be working none the less.

OK; different engine completely, but with just one plug out, the old 2.5 XM became harder to start and more than that, you could pretty much forget it.

Mike.
gmerry   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 04:06pm
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Travlician has been ahead of the curve and absolutely correct on many occasions so always worth paying attention to his posts.

The sealed for life gearbox has been well covered on this forum.

Those of us who perform regular preventative fluid changes (even partial ones) generally have no trouble with it.

regards
G
HiPOL   
Wed Sep 21 2016, 04:54pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
onthecut wrote ...

PS.

HiPol --- I think Travlician is right --- quite a few engines use the glow plugs in the first few seconds of running to aid combustion in a cold (in terms of normal running temperature) cylinder. They don't necessarily light up the glow plug indicator lamp, but may be working none the less.

OK; different engine completely, but with just one plug out, the old 2.5 XM became harder to start and more than that, you could pretty much forget it.

Mike.


XM was old school diesel, with traditional low pressure injectors - neccesary warm up after each long break. C6 has common rail system which generally uses glow plugs only when temperature is around -5`C. So that`s not a perfect comparison. When i bought my C6 last Fall, engine was runing perfect , then when Winter came i couldn`t start it one day (temerature much below 0). 5 glow plugs were broken - it didn`t affect engine work & sound in any way (except impossible to start ). That`s why i negated this opinion.
If glow plugs are beeing used in C6 after start i`d like to know it. So if you know something about it Travlician - please elaborate.
gmerry   
Thu Sep 22 2016, 07:08am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 HiPOL, there's loads of information on the net (PSA publications, Jaguar LandRover stuff) plus technical documents on this forum plus lots of information on other forums where vehicles fitted with the same engine are discussed, regarding post startup glowplug activation. Its just a matter of looking and digging.

So no need to for Travlician to elaborate.

regards
gmerry   
Thu Sep 22 2016, 07:13am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 Here's a summary of the SID201 ECU function for post (start) heating via glowplugs
HiPOL   
Thu Sep 22 2016, 08:45pm
Joined: Jul 08 2016
Member No: #2699
Location: Gorzów
 I hope my post didn`t disrespect anyone ? I was just commenting and asking. That`s what forum is for i guess ? All informations can be found somewhere... does it mean i can`t ask about it here ? Thanks gmerry for posting this table. Does it refer to 2.7 engine or it is general ?
gmerry   
Fri Sep 23 2016, 07:05am
Joined: Dec 11 2009
Member No: #21
Location: Scotland
 HiPOL, I've added the ECU reference and use that table is specific to the 2.7.

The other diesel engines will have their own specific controls for post heating.


Mike, if the starters sound ropey then usually is because the starters are failing (bearings) and so best to start there.

regards
G
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