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2.7hdi air con not working and heater only blowing luke warm air |
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ststech
 
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    Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
for last month my c6 the ac compressor will not engage there apears to be gas in system also heater has mind of its own it blows luke warm air although a little warmer on passenger side the mixer and distribution flaps are moving ok as you can get it colder when adjusted but the heat is barely anything and only gets a bit warmer if engine revs are increased heater used to be really hot but now this i have drained and refilled cooling system replaced a mixer flap reduction motor drivers side no difference it did this once before where it wasnt blowing hot enough then it was ok again very confused my thoughts are blocked heater matrix i [%*^#@!] hope not dont fancy taking dash out also what is the cut off outside temp for ac compressor to not engage as it always used to be fine a few months a go car going for timing belt replacement next week just want this heater issue resolved now the weather is cold any help much appreciated thanks in advance Simon |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
i did see a reference by C6 Dave to resetting climate control by setting to +21 for 30 mins is this with engine running or not or is my problem somewhere else |
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C6Dave
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   Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
ststech wrote ... i did see a reference by C6 Dave to resetting climate control by setting to +21 for 30 mins is this with engine running or not Yes it's with the engine running. If that fails to reset everything, it could be a temp sensor (internal or external) or the control module itself amongst a host of other things. |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
sorry dave but which sensors should i check the coolant temp sensor appears to work as temperature rises and the door mirror sensor changes with weather conditions i have lexia would that show up anything although i have never had any errors shown with it but i think you can test acctuators maybe it will check reduction motors etc could it be the cabin sensor causing the problem tried reset climate still cold put on diag see screenshots the readings look a bit odd on blown air temp have used diagbox to get some measurements no fault codes stored under climate control        |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
can someone please help had no heater now for a week  thanks Simon |
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
Do you see the report on passenger side blow temperature ? Minus 31/32, an absurd value, and a fact to start with. | ||
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
Tjensen wrote ... Do you see the report on passenger side blow temperature ? Minus 31/32, an absurd value, and a fact to start with. thats what i am getting at but if you look the passenger side on lexia is in fact right hand side as it gives reading for lhd cars by default any ideas as to what i should be looking for as climate shows no fault codes and thats the side that was blowing cold now they both blow cold does it have a sensor for each side if so where is it also would this account for the ac compressor not engaging or am i barking up the wrong tree regards Simon |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Simon, here's my take on this:- A/ I presume you have checked that the hose temperatures for the supply and return pipes to the heater. They should be very hot when the engine is up to temperature. This will eliminate a blocked (waterside) heater core or air lock. Again, I'm assuming you know there is an air bleed on the coolant circuit at the heater and you have checked this out. B/ Having established that hot water is flowing through the heater core, the next thing to do is to command the heater air mixer valve to fully hot, Maximum temperatures on passsenger and driver side (via Diagbox) and see what happens. Do you now get hot air from somewhere? If this doesnt work, remove the actuator from the hot/cold mixer flap and rotate by hand/tool until you get hot air. Checkout gear conditions with the motor removed. There is a download available in the technical section which can be used to identify which is the mixing flap and which is the distribition flap. Again, it would make sense to do this work on the passenger side as this "only" requires removal of the glovebox as opposed to drivers side airbag. E3steve may be able to advise if the drivers side airbag needs to be removed in practice (as per official instructions) or whether there is a workaround. At this stage, you will get a car that now is driveable in winter conditions because you will have some heat. If you can't get heat, the problem is in the heater core (blockage or pipe). Otherwise a new mixer flap motor is required or the problem is with the control system. I think you said you have already replaced the mixer flap motor so it sounds as though you know your way around the system. The other thing to do is check out a post by E3steve (but note there are two different heating systems dependent on build date - Visteon versus Other) and see what he had to say about a problem with the flap itself. Regards G PS, the fact that you have drained and refilled the cooling system makes it very important to do the first checks and eliminate the possibility of an air lock in the coolant circuit. PPS, there is a high chance of a mechanical fault with the system with Lexia/Diagbox will not help you with (eg stripped gears on the air mixer flap) so don't just expect to get to the fault via your computer. PPPS. Check out E3steves post Thursday June 26th 2014. His drivers side flap disintegrated (not the actuator/motor) so be aware of this when removing the actuator and rotating by hand. |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
have checked heater matrix supply and return pipes under vehicle and both are hot and also opened bleed valve all ok then had ac checked today system has plenty of gas but still the compressor will not engage i am wondering if the fact that passenger RH air blown temp being -32 has anything to do with it im not sure how diagbox measures each side as one is +18 other -32 are there sensors for each side if so where are they my ac specialist says that if cabin temp is lower than evap temp then ac will not work also as you can see in above screen shots that when trying to activate mixer or distribution flaps via diagbox it says an error has occured today got some heat from heater passenger side slightly hotter drivers side cooler even set at hi position the drivers side gets hotter when engine revs increased at idle goes back to barely any heat and passenger side gets colder dont understand whats up as all was fine a month a go apart from one occasion it did this but then a day or so later heater was warm as toast again very confused |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Simon, you are confusing yourself. Get rid of the aircon (pull out a fuse whatever). If you are finding hot rubber hoses/pipe on both sides of the heater then you can eliminate a blocked heater matrix, or trivial issues like a coolant air-lock. But investigate the mixer flap(s) operation. Disconnect the actuator/motor. Open the air mix flap(s) by hand to maximum hot position. If you now get proper hot air, the problem is the actuator(s) or the heater/aircon controller (ECU) including the input sensors. You might also find that the air mixer flap(s) has disintegrated just like E3steve found. But you need to eliminate all these issues before examining the aircon side of things. I think 3 forum posters have reported disintegrated flaps. Regards G PS, that fact that Diagbox is reporting a problem with the mixer flap actuation is a pretty strong indicator that there is an issue there. PPS, the fact that you are getting a little more heat when the engine speeds up basically points to the reality that there is no control over the amount of cold air coming into the heater system. A little more heat comes from the heater matrix at higher coolant flowrates (proportional to engine speed) and this all points to an issue with the mixing flap or mixing flap actuation. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Simon, Sammy in Romania also had problems with his heater, see link - Click Here - there was a repair kit available. The early cars had the heater/aircon system supplied by Visteon, which used to be a Ford brand so is featured in Mondeos and Focus etc. So guess what, here is a posting from a Ford website stating some of the heater flap issues for a Visteon system:- Ok, I've sorted out how it works, and perhaps more importantly, what goes wrong. Firstly, you have to understand how the software in the control unit moves the flaps in the heater box. It seems that when shuting a flap to control the airflow, it tells the motor controlling a flap to go to its "closed" position, then rotates just a little bit more to compress the rubber seals on the flap. I think the system senses the rise in current as the flap pushes against its stop, and cuts the motor. When you turn the ignition off, the system is designed to put the flaps in a particular "rest" position, except the temperature flap, which it cycles through hot and cold settings before stopping (I think it does this because Ford have had problems with the temperature flap becoming stuck in position on cars up to 2002) If the system doesn't get the rise in current that it expects, it backs the flap up a bit and tries again, but this time turning it past what it expects to be its end position (this was possibly done in case the system ever lost its positional settings. It does this 3 or 4 times before shutting down, by which time the motor has turned through 360 degrees, when its operating range is around 90 degrees. The REAL problem though is that the Defrost flap can be prone to softening due to heat and it's design, such that if the temperature has been set to "High" for an extended period of time, when the ignition is turned off and the motors go to "rest" position, (or possibly if you change the distribution settings yourself) when the flap hits the closed position, it is soft enough to start twisting as the motor give that little extra movement, and thus the current doesn't rise enough to trigger a shut off. so it backs it up and tries again, but this time rotating a little more, until finally the shaft attached to the flap gives up the ghost and breaks away from the flap, leaving you with no control over air distribution. To properly fix all this is painfull, Ford will probably want over £1200 to do the job (£557 for the Heater box plus fitting at £90/hour) You can try yourself, which is what I did, (heater box complete from scrappy cost me £50, but LOADS of aggro stripping out all the dash etc, and even then you might get one with an already weakened flap. or you can do what someone else on here did, and cut away the defrost flap in-situ (you only need to strip the centre of the dash out to do it) and this will give you some control back over air distribution, but is not perfect. (if I was doing this, I think I would also remove the electrical connection to the (now redundant) motor to stop it operating) |
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cruiserphil
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 Member No: #38
Location: Celbridge |
Simon, On your air distribution I'm with G. On your air con not working I'm with Tjensen on the -ve output from the sensor. This would need to be sorted. It would make sense that the air con would not operate if it thought that it was outputting -32deg to the cabin. The value is probably not wild enough for the system to see it as a fault and log it as such. Tomorrow I'm changing the radiator on one of the cars and when I'm done I'll endeavour to hook up Diagbox and check the heater readout to see how it compares with yours. I'll also record the radiator changeout and post at a later date. Best regards, Phil C. |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
cruiserphil wrote ... Simon, On your air distribution I'm with G. On your air con not working I'm with Tjensen on the -ve output from the sensor. This would need to be sorted. It would make sense that the air con would not operate if it thought that it was outputting -32deg to the cabin. The value is probably not wild enough for the system to see it as a fault and log it as such. Tomorrow I'm changing the radiator on one of the cars and when I'm done I'll endeavour to hook up Diagbox and check the heater readout to see how it compares with yours. I'll also record the radiator changeout and post at a later date. Best regards, Phil C. Hi Phil did you manage to find the readings i did hook diagbox to my c4 and got good positive readings 51 52 and the heater in the c4 is like a nuclear reactor yet the c6 is like siting in an outside loo in russia  i did check on citroen website today and with my vin number says i have visteon sytsem what i would like to know is where the sensor for air blown is as if you look at the diagram for the visteon system there is just sun sensor and a temp sensor single which looks like its mounted at the front but i have no idea where it is and how the system can check blown air each side with only one sensor yet the behr system is fitted with air intake sensors each side of the heater box i have had a loook and feel up beside heater box and cant see or find any sensor it says that this system was fitted up to and before a certain rpo also reading article on the ac i have found that the ac will not work if outside temp is 3 or below which it has been for weeks now i am going to try and heat the sensor on the mirror to bring temp up then see what happens also found that my car has additional heating not sure thats working i am quite confident that the mixer flaps are moving as it will go from poor heat to cold when adjusted yet it is not as hot as it was a month or so a go or no where near my c4gp or c4 hatch attached is the reading from my c4 hatch which gets like a furnace  |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
update air con is fine my mirror sensor is way off as it is not -4 outside !! i heated the sensor until it read about 58 and gradualy dropped and with this the ac compressor cut in so thats a relief i am 100% certain the mixer flaps are moving fully from hot to cold as you can get very very luke warm air or freezing cold and when you hold your hand on the reduction motor for mixing flaps you can feel motor moving then when it gets to end stop either hot or cold you feel it tighten up and stop yet i still have a virtualy non existent heater that used to be fine i dont know why as heater feed and return pipes hot but what i did notice after driving up the road about half a mile came back felt rad and top hose both of which were cold sat in car accelerated it for a minute or so and now rad is nice and hot and the heater matrix pipes are hotter but still virtualy no heating very very luke warm passenger side and cold on drivers side when set to high but both get a lot colder when set to low very confused now : |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Could it be the sensor on the Visteon Unit? |
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