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Oil Change by Suction |
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gmerry
 
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   Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Apparently its possible to remove more oil using suction than by gravity draining (for the 2.7HDi). Anybody use this method?  |
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Jodyone
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  Member No: #1240
Location: Cornwall |
I tried, when I first bought the car, but I couldn't get the pump nozzle far enough down the dipstick tube to reach oil. I gave up then and have drained traditionally since. It's due another oil change- I'll try the suction method again this time, maybe see if I can rig up a slimmer nozzle. | ||
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Its clear that the design intent is to allow for effective suction drainage, see the bit about the end of the dipstick guide tube being enlarged. Is it just a matter of having a long slim suction tube? Regards G |
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Jodyone
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Member No: #1240
Location: Cornwall |
gmerry wrote ... Its clear that the design intent is to allow for effective suction drainage, see the bit about the end of the dipstick guide tube being enlarged. Is it just a matter of having a long slim suction tube? Regards G The pump I have is like this: - Click Here - I used the manual type as well, which require you to evacuate a large spherical vessel with a hand pump (like a garden spritzer in reverse). Both rely on the hose making it right the way down the dipstick tube into the sump, to create vacuum. I can only guess that Citroen use some other system that seals around the top of the dipstick tube. In that case, surely the suction would be lost once the oil level reached the bottom of the tube..?! Unless the tube goes right to the bottom of the sump? I can't quite visualise it. |
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dsharples
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  Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
I have a one of these: Vacuum (Other supplies are available but I've always used JoB for larger workshop tools). And even with the smallest hose it won't extract more than about 3.5l from the C6. So perhaps Ok for an intermediate change - if you do one every 6k or so, but certainly not for a service. If drains the Mercedes just fine. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi, just to tie a recent post by mercuryrv to this post. He has a photo showing the end of the dipstick guide tube fitted with a slotted plastic end cap (big enough to allow the dipstick to pass through but not big enough for a suction tube). Speculating on the reason for the slotted plastic end cap: is it to minimise potential for oil spray or breather gas to be expelled from the engine. Is it there just to prevent oil changes being carried out by the suction method? Can it be knocked down into the sump? Is the discrepancy between the Citroen documents and what mecuryrv found when removing the sump, just a case of design change. Regards G |
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
Just done a oil filter change on the 2.2 hdi and the new oil is very clean showing on the stick. To clear up some of the details on the oil change and the dipstick tube. 1 IMO the slot in the end of the tube is not for the dipstick to pass through as it is for other reasons for the design.[dipsticks blown out can be one of the failings if it is removed but there are more] 2 The difference on oil capacities is allowing for the approx amount of oil the filter takes, after the sump is filled and engine run getting the final top up indication on the dipstick correct makes it easy. 3 How are you changing the oil etc in the first place and not by suction I hope. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all. The Citroen design documents (extract at the beginning of the topic) clearly states that MORE oil can be extracted using suction than by gravity drainage, and imply the manufacture's approval of the suction method by even stating that the oil dipstick tube has been specially designed for the suction method... BUT, the experience of several posters states it didnt work AND mercuryrv has found a physical problem, ie a restriction in the bottom of the tube. Jaguar forums in the meantime, quote members success with the suction method and report getting out +6litres. Clearly there is a disconnect. Did Citroen have a change of heart after the fiasco associated with long oil change intervals on the DV6 engine? (nothing to do with the suction method, everything to do with leaking injectors and excessively long change intervals. |
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mercuryrv
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  Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Hi people, just to correct one point made here, the dipstick will NOT pass through the end of the tube, the centre hole is far to small, about an 1/8th the size of the dipstick end itself. I suggest it is made like this so that a more accurate reading can be obtained without splash of the level of oil going up the tube or the quantity even leading to a false initial reading. So to be clear, the hole in the end is only around 3mm. Still think the lower sump drain is a better answer, why on earth they put a drain plug at least half an inch higher than the sump base is beyond me, in my Jaguar its.......AT THE BOTTOM, the lowest point!! | ||
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BillTodd
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 Member No: #1775
Location: Colchester |
Perhaps a C6, with its suspension lowered, would be in danger of losing the bung on a obstacle? | ||
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
You would lose a lot more than the sump plug before you got even near it. | ||
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, well it needed an oil change for the winter and far too cold to be jacking up the vehicle and getting under to go for the sump plug. The engine was nice and hot (mid bars on Navidrive for oil and water) So I hooked up the Pela650 - Click Here - and considering the plastic restriction at the bottom of the dipstick guide tube, I got just under 5 litres out (without changing filter) and it was all very easy. So for me, I'm pleased and will do a full change in March (when the summer wheels go back on) and might even drop the sump and sort out that tube. So compared to no change at all, good job. Regards G |
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Quite right, almost any change is better than none. When you come to remove the sump there are some *&£$+ bolts to undo, have a 8mm 3/8 drive socket, flexi drive and the other tool that is about the only way is to use a 8mm small ratchet ring spanner with a flexi head. Once you have the ones on the right undone, it is possible to spin these out using a small screwdriver on the head. You will have to remove the rear cross brace bar and then use a tyre lever to slightly flex the front of the sump to clear the mounting bracket for the air con pump. Other than that, P!55 easy!! | ||
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Jodyone
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Member No: #1240
Location: Cornwall |
Right, I'm going to have another go! I have to put the car up on stands soon to do a FRIP joint, so I'll try sucking out whatever oil I can, then drop the sump plug anyway to see what the difference is. | ||
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markp
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 Member No: #1746
Location: Somerset |
Looking at the wording on the Citroen document shown at the start of this thread: "The end of the dipstick guide tube has been enlarged, which enables a tube to be connected to a suction draining device." The 'end' is 'enlarged' in order to 'connect' a suction tube. This must be referring to the upper end of the dipstick tube - otherwise the suction tube would have to go through the narrow dipstick tube in order to get to the 'enlarged' bit that it 'connects' to - which doesn't make any sense. So, I read it to mean that you connect your suction device to the top of the dipstick tube and you don't put a suction tube down through the dipstick tube. This implies that the dipstick tube goes right down to the bottom of the sump leaving only a very small gap for oil to flow in and out of the dipstick tube at the bottom. Basically the dipstick tube becomes an extension of your suction tube. Has anyone had any luck connecting a suction device to the top of the dipstick tube? |
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