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strange abs fault and water in boot |
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ststech
 
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    Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
my c6 has strange abs fault seems to have started a few weeks a go when it started to get damp and wet outside here is what happens start car drive a few yards abs faulty comes up drive a bit further handbrake faulty drive about quarter mile if that stop car restart it abs comes on and goes off car then ok lexia reported last time i checked that the rear rh abs sensor was faulty i have bought one but not yet fitted it as i cant remove the old sensor its stuck any ideas on easy removal of it without snapping the mounting of the sensor which would end up leaving the faulty sensor in  last time i was in lexia it said front lh abs sensor the other strange thing is when you touch the wiring close to rear sensor or move it i notice you sit in car and speedo starts jumping between 0 and 3 mph on its own very strange any ideas and finaly whilst looking in boot in spare wheel recess the car had over a litre of water in there i have no idea how it is getting in there as it wasnt there when car was bought in august i will say car has been jetwashed 3 or 4 times |
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ststech
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Member No: #1845
Location: CREWKERNE somerset |
just to show how strange it is i got in it this morning about 6:30 drove 50 yrds all warnings came on abs esp then eventualy handbrake faulty reversed back stopped engine restarted it and abs light esp light came on with the bleep then went off i sat for 15 mins with engine running stopped went in house came back out at 8 drove car to the shop in town no warnings at all very strange indeed |
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JPV
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  Member No: #606
Location: Norwich |
From our experience this is "what they do!". It is interesting that the ABS still works, thus with the warning shown on an empty piece of tarmac drive along and stamp on the brake pedal and you can "feel" the abs working. The cause is the rear wheel speed sensors and replacement is the recommended solution: not a cheap job and they do not last very long. 2 on our 24000 miles C6. It does go away sometimes for months so you may live in hope that it has fixed its-self (a dream). It's an MOT failure if present at the time of the test. Interestingly all cars sold in the EU must have abs so speed sensors fitted but obviously better specified than those on the C6 as you do not hear of such a short service life on any other make. |
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gmerry
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  Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi JPV, just a couple of issues with your post. The "fault" common to many C6s, faulty ABS followed by handbrake (and reduced functionality of the Satnav system as they all use common signals) is nothing to do with the quality of the sensor or of the sensor installation but rather one to do with the connection back to the vehicle loom (which is located over the fuel tank). The actual ABS sensor is a common part fitted to dozens of vehicles. Regards G |
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magicands
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 Member No: #1021
Location: Coventry, Warwickshire |
Same old same old, threads everywhere on this forum for finding and curing this particular fault. It is however costly as the fuel tank has to be lowered and hence mega labour charges from your local friendly Citroen dealer !! |
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JPV
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Member No: #606
Location: Norwich |
Hi G you have left me somewhat confused as I did not replace the thing myself but both times relied on the local "main agent" to do the work. Both times I was shown a replaced part with the sensor and a length of wire attached to it so assumed that this was the part replaced. I was never shown a "connector" but was charged for removing the fuel tank. So I guess that when it goes next time I need he connector replaced and not the sensor? Interestingly the ABS still appears to work even with the fault showing. Luckily our C6 does not have satnav so one less thing to go wrong. |
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speedfix
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 Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
"nterestingly all cars sold in the EU must have abs so speed sensors fitted but obviously better specified than those on the C6 as you do not hear of such a short service life on any other make." The C6 has more suspension variants [travel] etc with start up trim height variations and humps and bumps with the car giving its quality ride, the cable makes and breaks a circuit within the failed part of the cable usually where the cable movement travels most. The tank need not always be lowered, if you are brave. With confirmed failed part of cable with the old sensor removed cut off the wire where it is in its stationary fixed position. A new sensor with wire section can be soldered to the stationary part of remaining old wire to the connector under the tank. Soldered connection must be sealed on completion. N/s front and rear are most common failings with the pot holes etc. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi JPV, 1/2 of the connector is integral with the sensor cable (its a very long cable) and the other 1/2 of the connector is part of the vehicle fixed wiring. There are at least three reasons why your replacement ESP has failed so quickly:- 1/ the vehicle loom 1/2 of the connector is dirty/worn or wet (contacts quality). 2/ the sensor cable has too much strain so that sometimes the cable pulls on the connector and goes open circuit, as the suspension goes throughout its range. 3/ the "new" sensor cable has failed internally due to excessive strain. 4/ the sensor / magnetic drive in the bearing seal is faulty. Note, none of the above have anything to do with the quality of the Bosch or equivalent sensor. They are all pretty much down to the care and skill of the technician installing the part. Which begs the question, why don't you go back to the dealer and ask them to fix the job. They should have offerred a warranty on the parts and fitting. Also, any technician would his salt would be using an oscilliscope to analyse the signal and make the diagnosis on that basis - then discuss with customer. Regards G |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
As G says, parts fitted by Citroen should have a 12 month warranty, but for some strange reason 6 months on the labour side only.... | ||
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JPV
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Member No: #606
Location: Norwich |
Well it did last 14 months! As to the 'reasons' we expected the "main dealer" to comprehend the task(s) in hand and advise as required. The C6 is my wife's car and it is true to say that based on her experience with it and the dealer we will never have another Citroen. | ||
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
JPV wrote ... The C6 is my wife's car and it is true to say that based on her experience with it and the dealer we will never have another Citroen. The car is built from components that are made by Bosch, Siemens, Valeo etc. and are often found on other 'Brands' and you surely can't reject the brand because of 1 poor dealer experience? |
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
"Also, any technician would his salt would be using an oscilliscope to analyse the signal and make the diagnosis on that basis - then discuss with customer." What are you going to do if the the oscilloscope is not showing any adverse wave forms? Give the technician the sack and blame the Dealership? Remember this is an intermittent fault on both cars. First I would read the code or codes thrown up and note, then clear the code. I would check the offending wheel to check any movement in the wheel hub bearing, this can be an intermittent fault starting with the air gap with ferro magnetic rings. If ok then on with the checking of the active type sensor, this can be carried out with a good scan tool spinning the wheel w/free with the suspension in various positions until the break in the wire is most commonly found confirming the intermittent fault. All my past and present Citroens with ABS have suffered with abs broken wire sensors far more often than conventional suspension cars due to the previous comments with quality ride comfort with the suspension travel absorbing the the bumps etc. . |
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JPV
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Member No: #606
Location: Norwich |
C6Dave wrote ... JPV wrote ... The C6 is my wife's car and it is true to say that based on her experience with it and the dealer we will never have another Citroen. The car is built from components that are made by Bosch, Siemens, Valeo etc. and are often found on other 'Brands' and you surely can't reject the brand because of 1 poor dealer experience? Why not? Citroen approved used car 8000 miles, after 24 hours ownership would not start dead battery Surely should have been checked. Year one MOT rear tyres 40% worn by tread depth under 13000 miles failed cracked side walls. Neither the dealer nor Citroen nor Michelin wanted to know. Year one MOT failed National Trust sticker in top nearside of windscreen 'obscures vision' Year one MOT ABS et al fault although the ABS still worked. The list goes on, my wife feels that they saw a woman with a credit card not a customer and that she would have been treated better by the 'oily rag' at the local lock up let alone the proprietor who might have recognised a customer. About 2K spent perception of service 0 out of 10. It's a shame as I have fond memories of CX turbo 2s I ran at the end of the eighties and my best friend has had Citroens since the early 1960s. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
JPV, could you use the system here and rate your dealer according to your experience. I must admit that I also bought a Citroen approved used car, one less than a year old with low miles. I spend quite a few days back and forth getting all the issues that the dealer had missed sorted out. Once the initial problems overcome, car has been pretty good. (I too have had the cracked sidewalls, intermittent ABS warning, LDS leak etc). However, talking to others a work, VWs, Audi and MBs all have lots of problems too and their dealers in my town and really good at taking their customers cash but pretty [%*^#@!] otherwise (OK, their coffee may be better). Regards G |
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saxmaniac
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 Member No: #224
Location: Helsinki |
Had exactly the same problem for some time, first intermittently, finally continuously. The cure (working for several weeks now): changed summer tires to winter ones. Managed obviously to clank a poor connection back to life. Presume that this would not happen if the sensor itself was dead? | ||
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