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Auto transmission fluid change |
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jon_viola
 
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  Member No: #1829
Location: Sussex |
Hi Can anyone tell me the recommended intervals for this on a 3.0hdi? Also the max recommended torque for the box? Thanks Jon |
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C6Dave
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    Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Already covered in various threads on site...... | ||
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mercuryrv
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  Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Hi everyone. As we do American RV's, I have spoken with our people who do auto transmission repairs for us in respect of a PROPER transmission flush not just a few litres at a time, they have a proper flush machine that fixes onto the transmission oil cooler either side of it, the inlet to the cooler goes into the storage tank in the machine, the outlet side draws fresh fluid. It first sucks the fluid out of the transmission and then replaces a little to flush it through then totally replaces the fluid with fresh. The other good news is that we have a stock of the special synthetic fluid used in this transmission as it is also used in certain RV's. I have double checked the compatibility with our supplier and they confirm it actually exceeds the spec stated by Citroen or ASIN Warner the gearbox manufacturers. I am happy to sell some to C6 owners if they wish to come and collect from us. My own car is booked in next week for a flush/change, happy to let you know if you are interested. Kind regards, Simon |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, not wishing to sound a little cynical here but:- Correct fluid for the Aisin transmission is not a "synthetic". The best fluid is one that meets the manufacturer's specifications. No need to "exceed" the specifications. I'm speaking here from an experience base of one transmission, after changing to a "superior synthetic fluid that exceeded the manufactuer's specifications", changes were definitely worsened. Probably wrong friction additive package. Simple advice here, ask to see what the transmission shop is offering, make sure it is exactly what the OEM specifies. Secondly, consider the analogy with blood transfusions: you would want to make sure that the correct fluid and cleanliness / hygene is being strictly managed to prevent some manky old hoses/machine being hooked up / infecting your transmission. Regards G |
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Hattershaun
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 Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
Also worth noting is the Citroen spec for gearbox oil in 3.0hdi is different to earlier engines. 3.0hdi and 2.2hdi (euro 5), use an 'AW1’ oil, part no. 9734R7, cost £140.70 for 2 litres. 2.7hdi, 3.0i (petrol) and 2.2hdi (euro 4) use a 'JWS3309', part no. 9730AF, cost £42.43 for 2 litres. I asked the technical people at Citroen UK if the oils are interchangeable, having seen the cost difference and was told they are not, so you should stay with the correct oil for your car. So, I'd paid the high price for the 3.0hdi oil and will get this changed (a partial change) by B.L.Autos in the near future. Citroen don't make the oil, so there will be other suppliers, maybe at lower cost, but I wanted to make sure I used the exact correct oil for my car. |
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Do agree with all you say in respect of oil specification, but if the oil meets the specification that is a minimum requirement, exceeding it in terms of suitability and longevity is (in my opinion) a worthwhile option. I am not sure why you feel it is a 'manky' old machine they are using, it is hardly a couple of old cans and some old cast iron drain pipe with a stirrup pump. No matter I am going to do it and will report back if anyone is interested. Bear in mind a few litres at a time is hardly changing it, more like watering it down........a bit, would you be pleased with your garage if they did that with your engine oil? | ||
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Hattershaun
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Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
A full oil flush is the best option, I agree. I'd be interested to know the cost. My car still has a relatively low mileage, under 30,000. On my previous C6 I did two partial changes close together, then another two partial changes about 10,000 miles later. |
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Hi, Once I have had the operation carried out I will report back with all the information and perhaps some pictures & costs. The writer is correct that the specification between the two models of gearbox did change, obviously our transmission shop is aware of that. As an aside, when we used to run a large bus company, we had purchased a number of LDV 20 seat minibuses, as original spec we were told to use gear oil in the boxes, that then changed to engine oil then when neither of those worked (blown gearboxes) it then went to TQF, it worked, no more blown boxes. A similar thing happened with Allison AT545 auto gearboxes, standard fill was TQF, but for urban buses this changed to engine oil, the end result was a much better change for the gearbox and no issues. So things do change, normally based on experience. As I said, I will report back in the short and long term as at the moment my gearbox has a slight 'flare between 1st & 2nd, let us see. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Hattershawn, thanks for reiterating the different specifications for the transmission oils relevant to Euro 5 compared to Euro 4 engines. For Euro 5 engines, Comma fluid is slightly cheaper, around £10/litre retail -small pack size Since the majority of UK forum members will be Euro 4, worth reiterating also that Esso manufacture the JWS3309 oil so it can be obtained in the UK under sub-brands such as Comma at very responable prices. (latest check was £10.99 retail per litre) I'm amused at the thought that a mechanic can sit at his computer and decide he can arrive at a superior specification, compared to OEMs and OEM fluid suppliers who will spend thousands of hours of rig and prototype testing. Then again, if they have special data or knowledge....? NB, if it an oil transmission specification "exceeds" the required parameters then it is "out of specification" by definition, period. The friction modifiers are a key part of the package and usually are the part of the specification that they are most coy about. On the other hand, if a transmission fluid supplier has comparative rig test data, then please request that they post this on an open forum |
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
Sometimes the world develops after the build of a car and parts, so that better oils may be an improvement. Synthetic gear oil was much better on old manual gearboxes, especially in cold weather. But the specifications must match. And auto boxes are complicated. Our engines are made for C2 oils, but maybe the newer C4 oils are better, even lower "ash" and same/better "thickness" ? | ||
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Please DO NOT misunderstand me, I am NOT telling anyone they HAVE to do this, neither am I TELLING YOU you have to use the same oil as me, my previous comments stand based on experience as a fairly major bus and coach operator, we would have been foolish to have taken new vehicles and play with transmission oils and kiss goodbye to a 7 warranty with a major General Motors owned gearbox manufacturer such as Allison for the sake of playing with gearbox oils. Markets do change and specifications change as things move on, or we would all be burning Peanut oil in our Rudolph Diesel engines wouldn't we? I am happy with the major oil companies assurance that the specification of the oil meets with the requirements for the gearbox, Citroen of course are paid a substantial sum of money (I suggest) by Total Oil for endorsing their products, as are Jaguar with Castrol, Allison now have a tie up with Castrol for their latest fully synthetic gearbox oil, it is also reverse compatible, but use the original oil and your warranty is voided. I am going to have a COMPLETE flush of my gearbox and use the oil my supplier recommends, if I and they have got it wrong, you can all learn by my stupidity, my oil supplier will of course end up with the bill for a new gearbox etc, I hope I am right in that it looks like a win win for me, only time will tell. Again I will keep you informed, you don't have to do it, but I am not sure that a few litres here and there is a course I want to follow, think of it this way, would you seriously change your engine oil this way, even more so without changing the filter? Kind regards, Simon |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Simon, minor correction to your post:- Although Citroen recommends Total oils and Lubricants across their fleet, actually for the Aisin gearbox on the 2.7HDI Euro 4, they specify an Esso oil. So they recognise the importance of using the correct fluid, not one that approximately meets the specification, not one that is "superior". Its a case of using the Goldilocks product - in this case it is not even very expensive. Anyway, that's it from me on this subject. Regards G PS, you might want to add to your post the brand, marketing designation and specification for the synthetic oil that you have been recommended. |
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jon_viola
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Member No: #1829
Location: Sussex |
Many thanks for all your posts and comments on this. I must say that irrespective of the fluid chosen by each owner the offer of something that truly does flush out and replace ALL the old fluid rather than leaving a load in to contaminate the fresh does sound like a very good idea. When the time comes I shall be in touch. Thanks Jon |
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mercuryrv
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Member No: #1848
Location: Teynham, Kent ME9 9HH |
Hi, Point taken, it was a generalisation really in terms of recommendations but you are correct. I will try this flushing system and my choice of fluid manufacturer and report back, as I said it is the benefit of the actual flush I was extolling not really the fluid. I will let everyone know once I have had the experience. | ||
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