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simonpj   
Mon Mar 17 2014, 01:35pm
Joined: Mar 17 2014
Member No: #1631
Location: Cambridge
My motoring life started out with 2CV, Dyanne, BX, CX and XM. But then I moved to the US and had to do without Citroen. Now back in the UK I'm finally going to end a 15 period with Mercedes and BMW. I can't quite believe my luck, but my family have independently come to the conclusion that what we need to replace our current BMW 5 series touring is a C6. (My daughters' piano teacher's husband has a C6, and they've fallen in love with it.) I'm happy to give in to them!

So I'm starting to look around at what's available, and am very happy to have found this site as a resource. I'm a little wary of all of the problems that C6's seem to suffer - but I'm hoping that if I managed to live with the BX, CX and XM I won't be in for too much of a shock.

Cheers,

Simon

Cambridge, UK.
Rettopian   
Mon Mar 17 2014, 05:04pm
Joined: Feb 13 2013
Member No: #1195
Location: Wiltshire
Hi Simon,

Yes the cars have a few issues as you will see from the forums, but - you have to remember that by & large people are only ever going to report problems. If everything is running perfectly & there nothing to report people have nothing to talk about!

Look at any owners forum, Skoda, Volvo, BMW, VW etc. etc, they all appear to be riddled with problems - frankly I'm amazed that the hard shoulder of our motorway system isn't permanently clogged by broken down vehicle!

Most modern cars are really amazingly reliable on the whole if properly maintained. I don't think the C6 is any worse than others, it just suffers from the poor reputation that Citroen used to have in that department.

I think most people on this forum would actually say buy & enjoy!

artisan100   
Mon Mar 17 2014, 05:58pm
Joined: Mar 15 2014
Member No: #1625
Location: Herefordshire
It looks like this bit of sunshine is bringing us all out of the woodwork - C6 wannabe's! I also started with a 2CV, then a Dyane, a Visa, had a GSA, a BX, a ZX, two XMs, a Xantia, a Saxo, and a Xsara Picasso. Now looking for a C6, and equally having trouble deciding whether my head or my heart is making the choice! As long as we don't get into a bidding war somewhere, Simonpj, then I hope we pass each other smiling and waving in our C6s later in the Summer.

Geoff
e3steve   
Mon Mar 17 2014, 09:54pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
A C6 is for life; not just for summer.......
simonpj   
Tue Mar 18 2014, 12:15pm
Joined: Mar 17 2014
Member No: #1631
Location: Cambridge
Thanks for your replies.

Maybe the spring weather has awakened some long dormant C6 yearnings. Hopefully there are enough good examples out there to go around.

I must admit, some of the stories here about sensor related gremlins and suspension problems have given me pause for thought.

With the CX, BX and XM I was confident that the widespread prejudice against Citroen complexity was somewhat misplaced - as the hydro-pneumatic systems were actually pretty straightforward.

Are the C6 problems on another level? Or are the nightmare experiences only a small minority?

I'm used to expecting higher annual costs for servicing and repairs - but I wouldn't want to feel concerned about getting to my destination when setting out on holiday with the family.

Cheers,

Simon

Cambridge, UK.
C6Dave   
Tue Mar 18 2014, 01:06pm

Joined: Oct 01 2009
Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland
Servicing is not an issue with Citroens 'Fixed Price' menu at £105 for an A service and £195 for a B

As for repairs, I have not had to do many at all on either of my C6's. The largest so far was just over £300 when the heater blower motor failed and I can't remember anyone else having that issue.....
Website
artisan100   
Tue Mar 18 2014, 07:25pm
Joined: Mar 15 2014
Member No: #1625
Location: Herefordshire
Like Simon I'm looking at the posts on here through my fingers from behind the sofa, as some of the stories are very scary, but I suspect it's the same with all modern cars now that rely so much on electronics.

A few years ago a recovery driver told me that they were doing a roaring trade with Mercs, as they had 'over thirty separate computers, and they've all got to talk to each other before the thing will move'. I've had an Insignia for the past two years (German built, don't forget) and on the day before Christmas Eve for each of those years something electrical has gone wrong.

First year it was the battery completely flat (except that it wasn't - the battery charger meter barely moved when I connected it so I didn't bother to try and charge it, and 3 hours later it was fine again) and the second year it was the engine management light coming on and telling me to 'refer to workshop'.

By the time I got to the garage (about 1 mile) it had gone off again. 'Never known that happen before, Sir.' Since then it's done it about 5 times. When it has been on for a week or so at a time I book it into to garage (where I'm told they'll charge me £75 just for plugging their diagnostics machine in) but by the time the appointment comes round it has gone off again.

If it were a Citroen we'd all be saying 'Typical', but it's not a Citroen, but I think it's still typical!

Geoff
e3steve   
Wed Mar 19 2014, 01:30pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
In '83 I bought a SAAB 900 turbo 8V (B-series engine). It had its first MoT test a month after I bought it and I kept it for five years. It wasn't trouble-free motoring, but many of the problems were of my own making, having installed an intercooler, water injection and adjusting the wastegate in order to run with 17psi of boost instead of the standard car's 10.3.

Within a year I was on my third Garrett turbocharger. The problem with that banana skin was education. I was using Castrol GTX 20W/50 oil as per the instructions of the company that was rebuilding the turbos (the name escapes me, but they were well versed and well known within the industry); GTX is mineral based and, we now know, a no-no in turbocharged engines as it bakes and locks the fully-floating turbo bushes. After I installed the third turbo my SAAB dealer suggested that I use SAAB's 'turbo' oil -- synthetic and, then, £17/5 litres -- and I never had a turbo problem thereafter.

I did, however, need to replace the gearbox at one point because it started popping out of third gear on the overrun. Then the steering rack pooped its pants and needed to be replaced. I also got through two cylinder heads on the 'B' engine (burning exhaust valves) until, eventually, I picked up a secondhand H-series 8v engine & 'box. It wasn't until it was run up on a dyno (182bhp at the front wheels, over 145, standard and uncorrected, at the crankshaft) that the tester found that the exhaust gasses were very hot and that the fuel/air mix was weak on wide throttle openings.

On those particular cars there's a small, black vacuum tank, the size of a decent orange, that holds vacuum for the heater air distribution flaps' control and also to provide the fuel injection system with the power to pull a vacuum servo, via a microswitch once three-quarter throttle is reached, thus enriching the mixture. It had a pinhole in it and the vacuum was decaying too quickly, thus no wide-opening enrichment. This was about six months before I sold it, so I'd lived through four and a half years of much of that mechanical heartache unnecessarily. Those cars had crude electronic engine management systems which advanced with the advent of the 16v Direct Ignition engines with their Lambda sensors and knock sensors, but nothing that would tell the driver of anything untoward that was taking place.

We now have the EML -- the Engine Management Light -- which tells us that something's amiss. Audi/VW/Skoda/Porsche, Opel/Vauxhall, Range Rover, Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes are all renowned for the EML cropping up willynilly, meaning a trip to the dealer or independent who has invested in the equipment to read the ECUs and tell us what piece of over-expensive junk needs replacing, cleaning or tapping with a three-pounder. For this he or she wishes to relieve us of a tidy principal sum to go towards his or her time and the cost of such analysis equipment.

We now live in the disposable motoring world where little gets repaired and most stuff gets replaced.

My best mate is a used car dealer. His little firm likes to make a reasonable profit but also likes to look after those who buy from him. A while back he sold a lovely little 54-plate, low mileage VW Polo to a guy who kept coming back with the EML issue. When the car got back to the firm the light wasn't always on at that time, but he always took the car to the repairing company who then duly read the ECU and replaced the Lambda sensor that was moaning or cleaned the EGR valve that was sticky.

Supermarket fuel was blamed but the advice was ignored by Mr Buyer. One of the team would then drive the car for a week or two with no issues. Mr Buyer gets his Polo back then has the EML problem again. And again, and.... You get the picture..... Eventually Mr Buyer gets (most of) his money back -- we're a year down the line now -- and the car gets sold on to a family friend who's not had a single problem.

She's had the Polo for a year and mostly avoids Sainsbury's or Asda or Tesco filling stations.

In '89 I treated myself to a new Sierra Sapphire Cosworth. Brand new, built for me as it was non-stock and bought on a Ford Privilege voucher -- my late wife's grandfather was a Ford factory retiree. It was 'chipped', from new, to 250bhp by the Ford Motorsport selling dealer using a tried & tested Detection Techniques' mapping service, along with updated braking and a smidgen of further springs' lowering. Mechanically it never, ever gave a moment's cause for concern. But it did, on occasion, blow the interior light fuse and the central locking and the door mirror adjustment stopped working too.

Hendy Ford never found the problem so, after three months of this really b-l-o-o-d-y annoying glitch, I decided to look for myself. The problem was in the first place I looked; I popped out the front interior light and found that the 12V supply wire was trapped under the light's plastic support which is screwed to the roof rail into a spire nut. Over a short length of time the vibration had caused the wire's pinched insulation to be pierced causing the conductor to occasionally short out to ground on the edge of the spire nut.

The moral here is that no matter which car you buy, unless it's of Japanese or Korean design and, sometimes, manufacture then there will always be that degree of problem components that fail for no apparent reason or because the driver wishes to save a bob or two and decides that cheaper oil or diesel "will do the job". It is, nowadays, the nature of the beast. Sh1t happens and we live & learn. You will always get a vehicle with a problem somewhere in its production run. Some get more than their fair share; some get less than their reputation may occasionally warrant. Some may never fail in two or three hundred thousand miles of hard use.

The C6 is no less reliable than any other car on the road. Citroën, as a manufacturer, is no worse than Peugeot or Renault for problems. All cars have problems occasionally. The C6's character and exclusivity far outweighs its propensity for having a poor reputation for reliability. Actually, does it really have that reputation? I suggest not. Buyers are scared of technological complexities, that's all. Most of us who own The Creature from the Lagoon aren't so scared; especially if we've owned other Citroëns and found them to be pretty easy to fix ourselves. Some dealers' pricing structures can be daunting though....

If we wanted total reliability then we'd buy a Toyota or a Lexus. Where's the challenge in that?
simonpj   
Sat Mar 22 2014, 10:44am
Joined: Mar 17 2014
Member No: #1631
Location: Cambridge
My C6 hunt didn't take long. On Thursday I bought a 39,000 mile 2007 2.7 HDI Lignage in Mauritius Blue, which also has the NaviDrive / JBL sound option. (I posted a first day impression in the owners review section.)

So far so good. I love being back in a car that has that totally different take on driving dynamics that comes from the DS and CX - so utterly unlike anything else. (I loved my XM, but regretted how far it stepped away from the CX suspension and steering in the name of a more conventional and sporty ride). My two teenage daughters think it's so much cooler and more romantic than our old BMW 5 series touring. And it's quite a sentimental experience for my wife because her father had a DS back in the early seventies.

We're just looking for a good country pub to aim for for Sunday lunch tomorrow - far enough away so we can have a good long ride out in it together.

Simon
e3steve   
Sun Mar 23 2014, 10:02pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Ahhh, the CX's steering. Yes, I remember the delight of reverse-parking and letting go of the wheel to allow it to self-centre.... A great trick if a pedestrian was passing. The look of amazement on his or her fizzog!

Roundabouts were quite entertaining until one got used to the very high-geared 'quick' steering turn-in; I recall negotiating them as though they were shaped like a thre'penny bit.
e3steve   
Sun Nov 05 2017, 07:01pm
Joined: Jan 21 2013
Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain
e3steve wrote ...

In '83 I bought a SAAB 900 turbo 8V (B-series engine). It had its first MoT test a month after I bought it and I kept it for five years. It wasn't trouble-free motoring, but many of the problems were of my own making, having installed an intercooler, water injection and adjusting the wastegate in order to run with 17psi of boost instead of the standard car's 10.3.

Within a year I was on my third Garrett turbocharger. The problem with that banana skin was education. I was using Castrol GTX 20W/50 oil as per the instructions of the company that was rebuilding the turbos (the name escapes me, but they were well versed and well known within the industry); GTX is mineral based and, we now know, a no-no in turbocharged engines as it bakes and locks the fully-floating turbo bushes. After I installed the third turbo my SAAB dealer suggested that I use SAAB's 'turbo' oil -- synthetic and, then, £17/5 litres -- and I never had a turbo problem thereafter.

I did, however, need to replace the gearbox at one point because it started popping out of third gear on the overrun. Then the steering rack pooped its pants and needed to be replaced. I also got through two cylinder heads on the 'B' engine (burning exhaust valves) until, eventually, I picked up a secondhand H-series 8v engine & 'box. It wasn't until it was run up on a dyno (182bhp at the front wheels, over 145, standard and uncorrected, at the crankshaft) that the tester found that the exhaust gasses were very hot and that the fuel/air mix was weak on wide throttle openings.

On those particular cars there's a small, black vacuum tank, the size of a decent orange, that holds vacuum for the heater air distribution flaps' control and also to provide the fuel injection system with the power to pull a vacuum servo, via a microswitch once three-quarter throttle is reached, thus enriching the mixture. It had a pinhole in it and the vacuum was decaying too quickly, thus no wide-opening enrichment. This was about six months before I sold it, so I'd lived through four and a half years of much of that mechanical heartache unnecessarily. Those cars had crude electronic engine management systems which advanced with the advent of the 16v Direct Ignition engines with their Lambda sensors and knock sensors, but nothing that would tell the driver of anything untoward that was taking place.

We now have the EML -- the Engine Management Light -- which tells us that something's amiss. Audi/VW/Skoda/Porsche, Opel/Vauxhall, Range Rover, Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes are all renowned for the EML cropping up willynilly, meaning a trip to the dealer or independent who has invested in the equipment to read the ECUs and tell us what piece of over-expensive junk needs replacing, cleaning or tapping with a three-pounder. For this he or she wishes to relieve us of a tidy principal sum to go towards his or her time and the cost of such analysis equipment.

We now live in the disposable motoring world where little gets repaired and most stuff gets replaced.

My best mate is a used car dealer. His little firm likes to make a reasonable profit but also likes to look after those who buy from him. A while back he sold a lovely little 54-plate, low mileage VW Polo to a guy who kept coming back with the EML issue. When the car got back to the firm the light wasn't always on at that time, but he always took the car to the repairing company who then duly read the ECU and replaced the Lambda sensor that was moaning or cleaned the EGR valve that was sticky.

Supermarket fuel was blamed but the advice was ignored by Mr Buyer. One of the team would then drive the car for a week or two with no issues. Mr Buyer gets his Polo back then has the EML problem again. And again, and.... You get the picture..... Eventually Mr Buyer gets (most of) his money back -- we're a year down the line now -- and the car gets sold on to a family friend who's not had a single problem.

She's had the Polo for a year and mostly avoids Sainsbury's or Asda or Tesco filling stations.

In '89 I treated myself to a new Sierra Sapphire Cosworth. Brand new, built for me as it was non-stock and bought on a Ford Privilege voucher -- my late wife's grandfather was a Ford factory retiree. It was 'chipped', from new, to 250bhp by the Ford Motorsport selling dealer using a tried & tested Detection Techniques' mapping service, along with updated braking and a smidgen of further springs' lowering. Mechanically it never, ever gave a moment's cause for concern. But it did, on occasion, blow the interior light fuse and the central locking and the door mirror adjustment stopped working too.

Hendy Ford never found the problem so, after three months of this really b-l-o-o-d-y annoying glitch, I decided to look for myself. The problem was in the first place I looked; I popped out the front interior light and found that the 12V supply wire was trapped under the light's plastic support which is screwed to the roof rail into a spire nut. Over a short length of time the vibration had caused the wire's pinched insulation to be pierced causing the conductor to occasionally short out to ground on the edge of the spire nut.

The moral here is that no matter which car you buy, unless it's of Japanese or Korean design and, sometimes, manufacture then there will always be that degree of problem components that fail for no apparent reason or because the driver wishes to save a bob or two and decides that cheaper oil or diesel "will do the job". It is, nowadays, the nature of the beast. Sh1t happens and we live & learn. You will always get a vehicle with a problem somewhere in its production run. Some get more than their fair share; some get less than their reputation may occasionally warrant. Some may never fail in two or three hundred thousand miles of hard use.

The C6 is no less reliable than any other car on the road. Citroën, as a manufacturer, is no worse than Peugeot or Renault for problems. All cars have problems occasionally. The C6's character and exclusivity far outweighs its propensity for having a poor reputation for reliability. Actually, does it really have that reputation? I suggest not. Buyers are scared of technological complexities, that's all. Most of us who own The Creature from the Lagoon aren't so scared; especially if we've owned other Citroëns and found them to be pretty easy to fix ourselves. Some dealers' pricing structures can be daunting though....

If we wanted total reliability then we'd buy a Toyota or a Lexus. Where's the challenge in that?
Re: "... the name escapes me..." -- It was 'Turbo Technics'!...
 

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