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Suspension DEAD !!! |
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e3steve
 
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   Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
There's a couple of reasonably-priced C5 pumps on eBay now: Main page; you should only need the motor. | ||
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rogerandoutman
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  Member No: #466
Location: London |
i'm getting senile, B&H were the people in Whetstone North London who used to look after my Ro80, like B&L, mechanics who know and love what they work on and get the problems on quirky cars sorted | ||
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Rettopian
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 Member No: #1195
Location: Wiltshire |
Ro80 - WHAT a car! a magnificent bit of kit! I has one of those. Still regret selling it. | ||
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rogerandoutman
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Member No: #466
Location: London |
we ae going off message, but loved mine until the seals went at 30,000 miles, par for the course however, shame that's what sunk NSU, and that was before the internet. Read what porsche owners say about the IMS bearing failures, but with their profits, Porsche don't admit any culpability. But at least in the US a class action ensured that victims of the failure could claim recompense | ||
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Rettopian
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Member No: #1195
Location: Wiltshire |
Off topic indeed but the IMS bearing failure look really quite ugly. I read that a lot of the surviving RO's are now being refitted with NSU units that are still available new for a fairly reasonable price - well in fact about the price of having the seat heater elements replaced in a C6! |
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Disco300
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  Member No: #1123
Location: Crewe |
Hi everyone, thanks so much for all of your advice and input .... now for the update !!! With the help of a first class local mechanic the job is complete. The pump motor was the fault, pump itself was fine. The motor was able to be stripped without the need to remove the pump and also without the need to remove the bumper. As you guys advised a C5 pump/motor was a match so we simply purchased one off eBay and stripped the motor from it (I now have a spare pump to either sell or keep for emergencies). During all of this time, the battery ran low so after completion of the work Lexia came up with an unbelievable number of errors from gearbox to engine ecu communication errors. Once these were all cleared and the system bled everything came back to life and as only the motor had been changed no replacement part information had to be entered into Lexia. If it wasn't for this forum, this whole nightmare would have been too much to face alone and I would almost certainly have considered selling the C6 in its dead state. THANKS SO MUCH TO EVERYONE FOR SO MUCH USEFUL ADVICE. Special thanks to rog for spot on guidance all the way through. Btw, I chuckled when I read that so many of you had been RO80 owners, we much all be out of the same mould as I owned a couple in my time and absolutely loved them 
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Trainman
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  Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham |
Don, Really pleased that you've got it sorted, mechanical stuff isn't my forte so best left to those that understand it....... 
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Disco, congratulations on saving another C6! I think E3Steve also deserves some thanks - first to document how the motor can be changed separately to the pump/hydraulics. Disco, did you catch any photos of the motor to pump coupling and access to the motor? Regards G |
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dsharples
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  Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
I've not got a dead suspension - but my hydraulic pump motor is "Smokin!". Doing the regular fluid checks this morning, I decided to leave the bonnet up whilst I exercised the suspension and was shocked to see quite a lot of electrical smoke pouring out from the black module attached to the front f hydraulic pump motor. There was a strong smell of electrical/arcing with the smoke. The car will be booked in to my local dealer forthwith (still just under extended-extended warranty), but was wondering if anybody else has experienced this - or if everyone should check? I do not want to be caught out with a failed suspension or worse, an under-bonnet fire? |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
dsharples wrote ... I've not got a dead suspension - but my hydraulic pump motor is "Smokin!". Doing the regular fluid checks this morning, I decided to leave the bonnet up whilst I exercised the suspension and was shocked to see quite a lot of electrical smoke pouring out from the black module attached to the front f hydraulic pump motor. There was a strong smell of electrical/arcing with the smoke. The car will be booked in to my local dealer forthwith (still just under extended-extended warranty), but was wondering if anybody else has experienced this - or if everyone should check? I do not want to be caught out with a failed suspension or worse, an under-bonnet fire? I doubt that it was from the electronics' module on the pump; that shouldn't get hot, by any stretch of the imagination! You need to be sure in order to be ready to face your fears. In a darkened area (nose the car into the garage with the light OFF -- keep a spot-beam LED torch or laser-pointer to hand): Invoke the identical procedure that caused the symptom to exhibit Monitor the area behind the r/h headlamp with the torch/laser beam Trust the feel of your fingers, touching the electronics' module then the motor body If it's the motor that gets hot then it may not be too much of an issue. I had the same symptom a couple of weeks' back. The motor isn't designed to labour at keeping the car jacked up to max height for long periods >30mins, ergo it WILL get hot. Very hot, from my experience. If the module is getting hot then your problem is more serious! I've learned that removing the key from the ignition, leaving the boot lid open and all four doors on the safety latch (gently close them on the first click) prevents the suspension system from "topping up" every time you go into the car. |
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dsharples
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Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
I have attached a picture to show where the smoke comes from. It very specifically comes from between what looks like the control module and the pump. Its white smoke like you get from electrical component failure - i.e. failure of a power transistor of similar. it rises in a flat line from between the pump and module - and has that "electrical component breakdown smell" to it. It only happens when the pump is in use. Even small movements (correcting the car for suspension load on entry)cause a little wisp of smoke - but significant movement provokes a lot of smoke. 
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rogerandoutman
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Member No: #466
Location: London |
I'm sure everone who has experienced a motor failure, will confirm that what you are indicating is the motor, not control module, which is on top of the hydraulic pump. If you have a warrenty, your in luck. The pump and motor alone is £950+ without fitting. These motor faults seem to be cropping up quite frequently, another Citroen underspecified component? |
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dsharples
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Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
Service-Citroen-Com seems to "propose" that as an alternative to ordering a straight replacement pump, earlier cars < RPO11360, that have part 5277 G2 need 5277 L7(1) + 5270 WF(1) - the latter being a small hydraulic tube that links the rearward pipework to the pump. Earlier cars <11360 that have 5277 G3 need 5277 L8(1) + 5270 VA(1) + 5270 WF(1) - which would see the whole front to rear hydraluc pipe replaced. It doesn't seem to know which my car needs - so looks like either type could be fitted. However, both the "old type" and "new type" pumps are available as replacement parts. Is there some modification here to the pipework to reduce strain on the pump? Strange! |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Your pump needs a motor. That block on the front of the motor is just a connection point for the high-current 12V +/- supply and the low-current "pump demand" trigger wire that tells the motor when to run and when to stop. If you were to remove the end plate from the motor you'd be more than likely to find that the two inductors and their plastic supports are burning out.  This is what happened to the rotor (armature) in my motor:  |
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dsharples
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Member No: #119
Location: Woodbridge |
My car went into the dealer today - No Fault Found with the Pump. Having cleaned the area, they could not provoke any smoke. I tried it too when I went to collect.. no smoke, just a very faint electrical/burn/heat smell. So a very expensive wash and valet... also no faults in the BSI from the EGR valves either that are possibly the cause of the occasional "shudders" on light 1.5k RPM acceleration - so I felt like a bit of car hypochondriac and a bit embarrassed... Without clear faults, the Citroen Warranty won't pay out... so I will have to see how we progress... |
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