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Maintaining Hydraulic Fluid Cleanliness P/S and Suspension |
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gmerry
 
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   Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Given that there are no maintainable filters for the hydraulic system, I have always thought that the Power Steering on the C6 could easily contaminate the common fluid for the suspension. It would be ideal to fit a hydraulic filter on the return line from the power steering so that the fluid is continuously filtered as it is circulated. However, the Beta factor at say 3 micron would have to be high to make any difference and this increases the problems with filter blockage. An emerging technology which is now gaining rapid automotive application is the Magnom filter - see How It Works - Click Here -. A key feature is that pressure drop is very low. I'm thinking a Magnom Mini installed in line in the return hose to the reservoir (under Front Left Wheelarch liner) would be ideal. Any thoughts? G  |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
How often would it need changing and at what cost? There isn't a lot of info on their site on that side of it? |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Dave, maintenance is removal, dismantling and cleaning and then refitting. I.e, its fitted for life. Folks with tuned Minis are fitting them. Ferrrari and Ducatti have them when they leave the factory. Regards G |
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Leo
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  Member No: #94
Location: Belfast |
Yes, my Mercedes GD has a filter on the power steering system which was unfortunately overlooked on the previous owners maintenance schedule. Amazing how contaminated it was when eventually replaced recently. The steering was actually "sluggish" because of the build up. This seems a very sensible modification, especially if the suspension system is also linked. Leo |
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Tjensen
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 Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
The C6 seem to be lacking level warning and filters in the hydraulic circuit, compered with DS, CX and XM. Is this only bad design (planned deterioration) or is it some kind of positive thinking behind these omissions ? | ||
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speedfix
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 Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
Will this devise need to filter no-ferrous metal and debri. If not then a removable magnet for cleaning located within the reservoirs would do the same at a cheaper cost? |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Speedfix, good question. Downside of putting a static magnet in the hydraulic tank is that there is no access to the LDS tank internals and fluid would only have limited circulation/contact with the magnet. The Magnom system is designed to promote good contact with the fluid such that (claimed) small particles, even sub-micron are pulled out of the fluid. There is also a very large surface area of magnets. The Mini tuners install one of these devices on the suction (pickup tube) to the engine oil pump. As the device is magnetic, in theory only ferrous particles get taken out of the system. In practise, van der Waals effects results in all sorts of non magnetic particles being trapped as well. There is a version of this filter available for central heating systems, designed to prevent condensing boilers clogging up. That version is marketed by Fernox as a Boiler Buddy but is just a licensed Magnom filter. All British technology. You may have one fitted to your house. - Click Here - |
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magicands
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  Member No: #1021
Location: Coventry, Warwickshire |
Any costings? | ||
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
The plastic or other types of magnets I have found to be cost efficent and in most cases last the duration of 100000 + miles before cleaning. Only today have replaced a worn pas pump, to hopefully safeguard the power steering rack from damage I fitted two magnetic strips to the reservoir. The position for the magnets is however best away from the fast flow as if they are doing their job you do not want the ferrous debri being washed back into the system with fast flowing fluid. The LDS tank can be done by carefull removal of the filter that is only used for careless dirty filling. Many engines and auto boxes now have this cost effective method in situ away from the fast flow. The minis [old]with the gearbox and engine running in the same oil had the magnet away from the flow in the sump plug, what they picked up you would not want that washed off going round the engine. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, received filter unit today and it is small and compact, has a high pressure aluminium housing that can be split in half for cleaning. It cost all of £36 plus VAT and delivery. I now need 2 off SAE-8 x hose adaptors to fit it. Does anyone recall the outside diameter of the LDS tank connection for the bottom hose (the one that has the poor clip causing all the leaks). Speedfix, suggest you read all the Magnom literature and weigh up pros and cons of various methods. It seems to me that this type of filtration has had a lot of research behind it and now is seeing a lot of OEM installations. Permanent magnet technology has massively changed in the last 10 years which is why in-flow magnets, together with the arrangement that Magnon adopt, deal with the issue of disengagement of the trapped debris. Regards G |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Here's a bit of product description/marketing from the Magnom folk:- The filtering of contaminants is subject to many problems, not least consumable and environmental costs. And filtering to sub-micron level increases these costs considerably. Or, to be precise, this was the case before Magnom, originally designed for the gruelling Formula One environment. Using magnetic field technology Magnom filters can reduce or even eliminate the requirement for consumable filter elements and the associated disposal costs. Uniquely, it achieves this without incurring the age-old problem of pressure drop, even when the filter element is full. This yields incredible benefits... for example, for the first time this allows fine filtration on the suction side of the pump. Even the viscosity of the fluid has little, if any, effect on the performance of Magnom. This is due to the design of the magnetic filter element in which the flow channels have an area equal to 110 per cent of the inlet, giving the filter a flow area greater than the pipe that feeds it and thereby allowing Magnom to be installed at zero risk. Tom Hulme, Chief Executive of Fluid Conditioning Systems (FCS), the company formed to take Magnom 'global', says: “Magnom has proved itself in a wide variety of application areas under diverse operating conditions. The key applications currently are transmission, machine tools, hydraulic, water and engine filtration, but we are confident that Magnom can improve filtration in any process involving any liquid with an element of ferrous contamination. We have successfully worked in applications varying from 1 CSt water right up to 8,000 CSt (like thick corn syrup) open gear lubricant. Existing customers range from a front-running Formula One team right through to global oil companies and power stations.” Being a magnetic filter, Magnom is ideal for applications where ferrous material from build or wear processes is likely to contaminate the lubricating or cooling fluid. Interestingly, however, FCS was alerted by one of its customers to the fact that 60% of the contamination that Magnom removed in their application was non-magnetic. Subsequently, FCS has commissioned a report from the University of Salford to explain this phenomenon, called heterocoagulation. Magnom's core consists of a series of annular magnets with larger steel plates shrouding them. These plates, which have a series of flow channels running through them, become fully magnetized. When the fluid to be filtered is run through these plates, it is subjected to a high magnetic flux gradient, caused by the focussing of the magnetic field at the tips of the plates. The result is that any contaminant is drawn into collection areas (out of the fluid flow) between the plates. This contaminant is trapped, preventing it from washing off back into the fluid as is the case with magnetic sump plugs, for example. Magnom's filter life is also considerably longer than traditional barrier methods, due to the greater contaminant retention capacity of these plates by volume. The simplicity of its design means that Magnom benefits from 100% scalability and current applications employ Magnom filters from 0.4” (10mm) diameter up to 11.8” (300mm) diameter. The length of the filter core can be as short as 4 mm, as in the Formula 1 and World Rally Car motorsport application, while the longest filter in operation to date, at a UK power station, is 29.5” (0.75m) long. This design flexibility, and a relatively low cost (at present from $350 to $2,800), open up a wealth of application areas for Magnom that are closed to conventional filtration systems. “It is amazing,” says Hulme. “Every time we have a meeting with a potential customer they come up with new applications. The cleverness of the Magnom? is a function of its simplicity”. Just looking at the above, this seems an obvious good fit for the hydraulic power steering/suspension. How about a fitment for the auto transmission? Regards G |
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drummond
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Member No: #238
Location: Aldeburgh |
The 2.7 and 3 litre cars have the PAS interlinked with the suspension system, but it appears that this does not apply to the 2.2, where the PAS is separate. Tim |
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
I cannot find any motor vehicle OEM that use this product, why if it is so good has it not been used by them?. F1 engines do 500 mls per rebuild hardly a long haul rally cars probably less! IMO the stated facts are just a marketing exercise. Could be a snake product for motor vehicles of witch there are plenty! Do remember if used to notify your insurance company as this will be classed as a mod within the steering suspension system fluid flow pipework. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi Speedfix, here's a good reference Power plant case study One of FCS’s most recent contracts was for just such an application. When a joint project between ExxonMobil and the utilities company Innogy was set up to improve the reliability of coal mill gear boxes at the Didcot A power station, the team’s attentions soon turned to the lube oil circuit. Didcot A is a 2,040MW coal fired power station and was first commissioned in 1972. Responsible for its operation and maintenance, Innogy’s engineers continually review operating practice with a view to improving efficiency, extending asset life and achieving, and where possible exceeding, increasingly stringent environmental targets. These objectives led Innogy to search for a much less restrictive lube oil circuit which could maintain oil pressure at elevated temperatures. Dissatisfied with the pressure drop caused by some traditional filters they had tested, ExxonMobil and Innogy approached FCS to organise a trial of Magnom. Impressed with the credentials of the product, the team decided to install a single Process Unit as a replacement for the existing edge filtration system on the external oil circuit of one of the station’s coal mill gear boxes. Cleanliness It quickly became evident that the primary objective (maintaining oil pressure at elevated temperatures) had been realised with no discernible pressure drop being recorded across the unit. Perhaps more importantly, improvements in oil cleanliness have occurred, with a dramatic reduction in ferrous contaminant and additional reductions in aluminium, silicon, copper and soot levels. Based on this trial, ExxonMobil carried out an oil analysis service which was able to demonstrate that the ferrous levels – previously running at the dangerously high level of 350-450 parts per million – dropped to a consistent 40-50 parts per million. The analysis also showed a definite reduction in the oil of the other non-magnetic contaminants of concern. The report also found ‘Removal of finely suspended black debris as a slurry (assumed to be predominantly coal dust and fuel ash with small ferrous particles, as the slurry was magnetic)’. Following the success of this trial, Innogy is now in the process of integrating Magnom technology into all 32 coal mill gear boxes. The benefits of extended oil life and reduced consumption, in addition to Magnom’s dirt holding capacity, mean that routine maintenance can be kept to a minimum, with the units requiring cleaning once every three to four years. FCS has, in fact, worked very closely with ExxonMobil on a number of projects. Another quite different example being both companies’ recent collaboration with Brook Crompton. The latter was having difficulties with a Linzine grinding machine used in the production of a specific metal component for a compact electric motor assembly. With its existing filtration solution, the machine was able to successfully work three components before it needed redressing to avoid the surface finish of the components being impaired. This obviously caused the company a considerable amount of downtime as the filters and fluids took some time to replace. ExxonMobil was already working closely with the company and introduced FCS as it felt the Magnom may be able to aid the situation. “Since introducing the Magnom system 18months ago, we have been able to obtain a minimum of 10 components before any redressing is required,” enthuses Andy Sagoo, components manager at Brook Crompton. “In future we expect to be able to increase this to 15+ components.” I hardly think ExxonMobil and Inogy would be using this technology if it didn't work. Here's a really good description of the technology including a list of awards it has collected. - Click Here - In my opinion, a technology breakthrough. Regards G |
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speedfix
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Member No: #1043
Location: south west |
"In my opinion, a technology breakthrough." Breakthrough, no not for hydraulic systems, this is far superior and with many others. - Click Here - However IMO with the use of simple magnets they do the job in the most cost effective simple maner with no need of time consuming fitting. I have seen much hard sale marketing but in most cases the successful ones sell them selves. Don't be hoodwinked by all you read. |
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