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Pulling to one side. |
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michaelb
 
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  Member No: #14
Location: London |
As you might know Citroën put two new Michelins on for me last week. I drove home a happy man - albeit lighter of wallet. Yesterday I took the car out for the first time since then and got one kilometre up the road when the puncture warning came on. As I was about to go on a motorway journey I didn't fancy the speed-restricted space-saver so decided to turn around a drop into National Tyres nearby. The lad took the rapidly deflating wheel off and started tut-tutting. Sure enough Citroën had left the old weights in place and balanced the wheel with new ones as well. Then he pointed out that the rim hadn't been cleaned and could be the cause of the leak. When we took the dust cap off we found the valve insert was loose. Simply tightening it up and inflating the wheel did the trick. Phew - at least there wasn't an expensive puncture in a new tyre which was my first fear. Now my question. Once on my merry way I noticed the car was pulling to the left. I thought it might be a discrepancy between Citroën's and National Tyre's pressure gauges. I took out my gauge and ensured both tyres on the axle in question had exactly the same pressure but the pulling to one side persists. It's not a violent pull but it's nevertheless quite evident. I was there the whole time with the National Tyres chap and he did nothing but take the wheel off and put it back on. He used the jacking point under the sill, he didn't touch any suspension members. Has anyone heard of tracking going out of line like this before? Do you think I should take it back to them and have them check the tracking, or is another visit to Citroën on the cards? |
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Trainman
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   Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham |
I'm wondering if the weights have come off ? or if the other side has more weight on that it should, I think I'd be getting both rebalanced, just to be on the safe side. | ||
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Dave Mc
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  Member No: #64
Location: Weston-super-Mare |
HI Michael, I would take it back to Citroen as it must be something they have done when changing the tyres (BADLY!). If it was a weight problem and the wheels were unbalanced all it would do is to give you vibration and not make the car pull to one side. | ||
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tonyrome
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  Member No: #15
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michaelb wrote ... Citroën had left the old weights in place and balanced the wheel with new ones as well. Then he pointed out that the rim hadn't been cleaned and could be the cause of the leak. When we took the dust cap off we found the valve insert was loose. Top quality service work by the dealer, Michael  . This is the sort of service quality which is responsible for Citroen's UK dealers having such a poor reputation!
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
I know, I should go back to them to have it sorted out but to be honest with the journey there and my current level of faith in them I'm inclined to get someone local to look at it.
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
The mystery continues. I took it back to Citroën. They tested the geometry and handed it back to me smiling that a small adjustment needed to have been made and it's now perfect. I drove off down the road and turned around at the first roundabout bringing the car straight back to them because it was still pulling to the left. Citroën agreed to check it again. After another wait they came back to me and told me the geometry is perfect and asked if I wanted to take it around the block with one of their technicians. Off we set and a hundred yards down the road I gently let go of the wheel and sure enough we headed for the kerb immediately. Even on roads with no camber the wheel has to be held at about 5° to the right to drive straight. The technician saw and acknowledged the problem. He confirmed again that the geometry is perfect maybe it could be a manufacturing tolerance issue between the tyres; different batches, different compounds, different rolling resistance. Pulling back into the dealership I suggested swapping them side to side to eliminate that. They did that and we headed out again. It is improved but still there and still to the left. So it can't be a question of one tyre having a greater diameter than the other, or such like. At this point Citroën were at a loss as to what to suggest. They offered replacing the tyres but as (a) I don't believe they are at fault because otherwise it should now be pulling to the right, (b) I've only done a hundred miles on these tyres so I wouldn't even be gaining on that front (c) there is more chance the fragile valves could be damaged and more importantly (d) it would mean more trips to the dealership for me, I declined the offer and decided to try living with it. |
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michaelb
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Member No: #14
Location: London |
Update: I had decided to wait until I got onto Continental roads, with the camber on the other side, to see if this problem persists and needs to be looked into further. Sure enough driving in France it is still pulling to the left, even uphill against the road camber. I decided I couldn't live with it any more and asked a French dealer to check it out. Well wouldn't you know, despite Slough telling me several times "it's all within parameters" the French dealer has given me a printout showing the right front wheel had 1° 15' too much negative camber. They adjusted it as much as they could but it is still out 1° 12' beyond normal parameters. Looking at the car's history they see the pivot and bearing on that side were changed in March (I'm impressed that Citroën's computer system works better than the NHS). They suggest to me that the pivot hasn't been properly mounted. Not having time now to get them to fix it before my return to the UK I fear another visit to Slough coming on
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C6Dave
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 Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Now that is interesting, maybe the French dealer employed real mechanics rather than the 'spotty technicians' who still sport 'bum fluff' we habitually encounter in the UK | ||
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Mike H
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  Member No: #53
Location: Melbourne |
Does that mean the new tyres have revealed/exagerated a preexisting problem not apparent with the old tyres? Was there any uneven wear on the old tyres that might support this? or, Is it possible for a hub or break binding problem to cause this? e.g. is the hub /disc hot(er) on left side pure speculation based on nothing. mike |
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Ranger12
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 Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Hi there, I'm new to this site and a new owner of a 2007 C6 2.7 Biturbo HDI Exclusive. Did you ever get this issue resolved? I ask as my C6 is also pulling to the left, and despite having an interim service, and the front struts and lower suspension arms changed for new ones (£1700), then 4 wheel tracking done (tracking was out), my car still pulls just as much to the left, like nothing was done. It doesn't dive for the left, however I have to keep a constant counter-pressure on the steering wheel to go straight. I have also tried it on the right hand side of a cambered road, and whilst this reduces the pull to the left, it still pulls to the left against the right camber. Tyre pressures are equal, all tyres have around 5-6mm of tread, and at low speeds I can take my hands off the wheel, and watch it turn itself left by about 5 degrees. Braking slightly increases the pull to left, but only slightly. If anyone knows the cause of this issue, please let me know what was done to remedy the situation. Kind Regards Pete |
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Trainman
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Member No: #86
Location: Penwortham |
I had this issue on my old C6, it turned out that one of the suspension bushes was wrong, it was for a C5 not a C6. I can't for the life of me remember which one. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Thank you Trainman, that is worth considering as so far I've had the car on a £20000 tracking machine which has given different readings each time, though the camber on the rear wheels is -2 08' (L) & -2 13' (R), which are visibly out of spec, and apparently non-adjustable, which is a mystery to be solved. The tracking (toe-in) on both front and rears are within specs, I went to the garage and observed the whole process, and ended up having to guide them through how to setup the C6 in the first place as they did it wrong (car fully lowered with engine running which wobbled the gauges, and they chocked the wheels which prevented the suspension rising back to normal). I had an opportunity to get a good look and feel under the car at this time, and it seemed to me the rubber suspension bushes at the rear are a bit soft, but several mechanics had a feel too and declared them to be fine. A brake test also revealed my brakes are good all round. On Monday I am having all new tyres fitted to eliminate the mismatch and previous wear on the current tyres (all of which have 5-6mm of tread, but have worn their inner edges out to about an eighth of the total tyre surface). I also note that inner tyre wear has been mentioned in all of it's previous mot's going back to just after the warranty ran out, for both front and rear tyres. This 13 year old car has done just over 10,000 miles a year, and it looks like it's been wearing tyres unevenly for half of its life. I think wrong suspension bushes (or complete arm with bushes) perhaps is highly plausible given that I can find no evidence of accident damage, corrosion, or wear-induced play. The rear wheels in particular look like when a CX rear main arm bushes are worn, which causes the wheels to angle in at the top (negative camber), and perhaps C5 suspension arms are very similar but perhaps fractionally longer/shorter in areas which affect the general wheel camber and/or toe-in. I will find what the issue is, and when I do, I will post the remedy. Here's hoping I find what's wrong soon though, this is draining my finances rapidly, and my local French car specialist seems rather too pleased to see me at the moment (I can't think why .... :-P ). |
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MGmike
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  Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry |
It might seem strange but you need to work on those rear numbers first. -ve camber would suggest the top bushes or pins are worn or bent (I think  ). You might want to check there's no wear in subframe holes as well.Perhaps the cheapest approach might be to get a second-hand subframe, overhaul the bushes and swap the whole unit. I can supply one if that's the route you decide to go. |
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Ranger12
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Member No: #4492
Location: Somewhere in the darkest recesses of England |
Thank you for your advice MGmike. I agree with you about investigating the rear numbers, something is visibly not right, looking at the rear wheels from the back I can see the negative camber on both sides. The front left wheel is in the green for camber (-0 31'), caster (5 17') & Toe (0 05'), the front right wheel is in the green for camber (-0 35') & toe (0 08'), but out of spec on caster angle at (4 39'). The Front Total Toe (0 13') and Steer Ahead (-0 02') are also in the green. The rears, Left Toe (0 18'), Right Toe (0 20') Total Toe (0 37'), and Thrust Angle (-0 01') are all in the green except the left and right camber (-2 08' LHR, -2 13' RHR). I talked to a mechanic (who used to own a C6) at the garage where I get the 'heavier' & more specialized work done at, and he thinks it may be to do with the rear subframe too, though I can't rule out the potential that it might have C5 components as Trainman's had. The mechanic also mentioned that Citroen and Peugeot both had issues with rear subframes around the time the C6 came out, but can't remember if Citroen had any technical updates or recalls for this. I'll be booking the car in on Monday to have the part numbers on the rears checked, and I will ask them to check the subframe and mounts, as well as checking the suspension upper arms to determine if they have bent, maybe where they pass around the suspension strut. it has to be something worn or bent, there's not much else that could give those kind of numbers on the rears. I hope it isn't the subframe, sounds mighty expensive and the kind of job that requires a garage and lots of space, which sadly I could do myself if it weren't for my location ... neighbours .... once upon-a-time I would, could and did happily rebuild cars on the road ..... |
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MGmike
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Member No: #3151
Location: South Queensferry |
I know about the problems the C5's had back at the time as I had one! I've not heard of it on the C6 (so far!). At that time I was a high mileage driver (I think the C5 was my first take the money not the car as a company allowance) and It took me awhile to get the stealer to take it seriously. In the end they did replace the subframe under warranty. Something to do with incorrect hole drillings. Actually changing a subframe isn't that big a job but you do need space and a lift helps! With a good run I think you could probably do it in about 2-3 hours. The biggest problem is going to be getting the old suspension pipes out without breaking them... |
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