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Level Switch for Coolant Reservoir / Degassing Tank |
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e3steve
 
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   Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
G, I'd be happy to work alongside you with this. I really want to improve upon this gorgeous vehicle and, hopefully & between us all, we can pick up where Citroën themselves left off! I bought mine because I'd been promising myself one ever since I saw the horse-racing camera stunt on Top Gear -- C6 vs. BMW 5-series -- and, also, ever since I observed William Gaminara's character, Prof. Leo Dalton in Silent Witness, driving one. I just love these unusual and unique beasts! Citroën have always been innovative; but with innovation must come reliability, and the only reliable Citroëns that I ever owned thus far seems to have been my old 2CV6 and my BXs. Spheres aside -- and even those failures were restricted to the oldest BX that I owned (the 19RD auto) -- I don't recall any of my BXs ever giving me grief. Not ever! So, with that in mind, I'd really like to be able to get my C6 properly sorted. We seem to suffer all manner of silly failures of switchgear, xenons, cruise control communication devices, etc, some of which should be addressable; but this ridiculous overheating-due-to-low-coolant party trick is just unforgivable in this day & age! And Citroën should be ashamed of themselves for letting such a glaring error of an omission get past their in-house QC. Even Peugeot, who are renowned for poor build quality (I'm using an '04 607 2.2HDi auto whilst my C6 undergoes minor surgery and suffers the waiting game for the replacement incidental brittle engine parts -- Jeez, what a piece of old  !), managed to remember to include a low coolant sensor!Rant over. So, onto the job in hand: I'll see if I can find the time next week (I'm due to be in Palma de Mallorca to address a yacht's monitoring system's problems -- ironic, or what?!) to play with the Cartier probe that's in my C6's header tank. Having pulled it and given it a cursory look-over, I was thinking that it may have been an ultrasonic device. These are quite common within yachts' tank systems, like black- and grey-water high levels, whereby their output changes when their oscillating frequency is altered by becoming immersed. Industry-standard outputs are either digital (on or off) or analogue (0 to 10V or 4 to 20mA outputs, both mainly for linearly-scaled calibrations but, sometimes, and in the case of ultrasonic probes, for detecting the presence if a body of liquid). Having read the patent that you kindly provided the link to, we can see that this is a low current conductive probe; and yes, we should be able to use its output to drive a solid state relay. I shall carry out some tests and report back. |
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gmerry
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 Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
OK, cartier low level switch. Looking end on into the electrical connection, one can see the terminal numbers 1, 2 & 3. Terminal 1 is earth Terminal 2 is signal Terminal 3 is fused +12V supply (ignition on). The signal is normally +5V (ie when submerged) and falls to 0v when liquid level drops. I got the connector out of a crashed 407 and the wiring colours were terminal 1 green/yellow terminal 2 orange terminal 3 white regards G |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Thanks G; I'll be on it during the coming week. I like your idea about utilising the oil pressure warning circuit. Good call. I'm just in the process of getting myself a Lexia 3 Diagbox; one that allows alterations to the vehicle's parameters, so perhaps there's a provision for low coolant level(?), somewhere in the BSI / ECU. Any idea as to where one might obtain the passcode for a C6? Would a dealer, or Citroën HO provide same to an owner? Good weekend! |
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C6Dave
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  Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
e3steve wrote ... Any idea as to where one might obtain the passcode for a C6? Would a dealer, or Citroën HO provide same to an owner? Good weekend! You won't get it off a dealer I'm afraid. There are several members who have bought one so hopefully they will be able to assist |
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eduardomaio
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  Member No: #869
Location: Lisbon |
A member of the portuguese Citroën forum was looking at the Citroën Service website and found out on the 3.0i the expansion tank had the level sensor. I then went on to browse the parts for the 2.7 HDi and upto ORGA 10674 the level sensor was included. I didn't find any change related with this ORGA number regarding the engine electrical wiring. Was the switch discontinued and the cable is still there, or was the switch included without being connected to anything? Can anyone with one of the first C6 with a ORGA inferior to 10674 check this? |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
Now that is interesting, a tanks was fitted until RPO 10674 with a level switch after RPO 10674 there was a different tank with no switch (as already posted): (Click to enlarge)  Level Switch part number was updated and covers: - 1323 G1(1) for C1 engine DV4TD - 1323 S8(1) for C5 engines DV6TED4 , DW10BTED4 , DW12TED4 - 1323 V2(1) for C5 engine ES9A - 1323 V1(1) for C6 engine ES9A Looking at those above it may be easier to find one at a breakers as it was fitted to more cars than the C6 Tank 1323 V1 costs: £45.70 inc Vat Switch 1306 F2 Costs: £19.31 inc Vat |
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Pappnase
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 Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Thanks guys for your research efforts. If the old version still works it might be worth a few quid. Also I still have a brand new XM sensor somewhere. Wonder if this one works. And e3steve, to my knowledge the China lexias all have the same passcode, 03114. Papp |
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Hattershaun
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 Member No: #320
Location: Bedfordshire, UK |
eduardomaio wrote ... A member of the portuguese Citroën forum was looking at the Citroën Service website and found out on the 3.0i the expansion tank had the level sensor. I then went on to browse the parts for the 2.7 HDi and upto ORGA 10674 the level sensor was included. I didn't find any change related with this ORGA number regarding the engine electrical wiring. Was the switch discontinued and the cable is still there, or was the switch included without being connected to anything? Can anyone with one of the first C6 with a ORGA inferior to 10674 check this? Just checked my car, which doesn't have a level sensor. It's an early car from Nov 2005, RP 10606 and 2.7hdi. Looking at all the different engines on Citroen Service it only appears that early petrol cars had the sensor. I wonder if a sensor could be fitted to cars that didn't have one from the factory and it would just plug in work. Here's hoping! |
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C6Dave
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Member No: #1
Location: Northumberland |
OK, the only relevant wiring diagram for cars pre RPO 10674 I can currently find is the one for the multifunction display screen - Click Here - Hopefully that will help with the Coolant Level Switch, however if someone with a 3.0 Petrol with the system fitted can provide a Vin, then we may be able to get others |
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eduardomaio
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Member No: #869
Location: Lisbon |
Hattershaun I have checked it again and it doesn't appear on the 2.7HDi as you mention. Now I'm not sure if I was checking the 3.0i and thought I was on the 2.7 or if it was just wishful thinking 
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, pretty sure that the ECU for the engine on the 2.7HDi does not have the required inputs/outputs for the Cartier low level switch. Note to Sam, the switch is just there to detect a low-low event and is not bothered about changes in the level due to coolant expansion per se. Anyway, integrating the Cartier switch should be possible. If one uses the oil pressure switch as the input warning signal to the BSI, then +5V signal from the Cartier sensor is used to indicate all is good and +0V from the Cartier sensor that there is a fault (ie switch the oil pressure sensor wire to earth). Anyone have experience in using P-Mosfets? Regards G |
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e3steve
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Member No: #1163
Location: Warsash, Hants & Palma de Mallorca, Spain |
Some of the story continues here. | ||
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gmerry
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Member No: #21
Location: Scotland |
Hi all, here's a circuit diagram to link the Cartier level switch into the BSi as found on the 2.7HDi (or any other variant without a coolant expansion tank level monitoring circuit) Regards G (Click Image to Enlarge)  |
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ceesix
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 Member No: #1464
Location: Bedford |
Hi, I have gathered together the parts needed to install a coolant level sensor in my C6. Thanks for providing details of the set up. However, not being very familiar with electronics, could you supply more detail? Its not clear if the veroboard and relay already exists within the BSI ( does this need to be opened? Or, do they need to be bought and built? How about the oil pressures switch, where is it and how do you break into the wiring? Finally, what about your comment regarding 'back EMF?' How would this be protected against? Sorry to be so ignorant, but looking for a little guidance. Regards, Paul |
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eke
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Member No: #624
Location: Oulu |
Hi, I'm in the same situation. I had the sensor installed and have the plug with wires. it would be great to have more information to where to connect the wires. Br Eke |
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