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Better sound with RT4 and JBL? |
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Pappnase
 
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   Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Hi, there is some valuable information in here but I have not found any report if somebody has in fact been able to "tune" the sound system. Having driven various XM for 16 years, I am not too impressed with the quality of the RT4/JBL system in my C6. In comparison to the XM, the sound is somewhat muffled and lacking bass and treble clarity. It sounds more like a '50s portable radio than like a decent car stereo, this is of course exaggerated. I am a 99% classic music listener, so I don't need ultra bass power. As I said, I'd be happy if I had the XM sound back. There has been some advice in the German forum and I even listened to somebody's modified C6. He had exchanged the door speakers against some Focal PS 165 which are considered to be good speakers. And yes, his sound was notably better but still not good enough. I wonder if the amplifier or the radio are to be blamed. I browsed the technical documents section which contains a lot of useful stuff, but no RT4 documents except the Spanish doc which is for the C4. So I am asking if somebody went through this before and can give me some advice. In parallel, I shall be seeing a specialised car audio dealer later today. If he knows something, I'll report here. Many thanks Papp |
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Bishop
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  Member No: #868
Location: Harpenden |
Papp - Sounds like some pretty advanced Citroenomics ... It must be your choice of music as the JBL in my C6 is the best in car ICE I've ever had. | ||
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Pappnase
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Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Have you ever had an XM? Way better ICE for classical stuff. Sometimes I am wondering if my tweeters are "bost" as they say in the black country. There is almost no difference between +10 and -10 settings. But there are 4 of these in the car so I can't believe all are gone. |
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Rich
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  Member No: #542
Location: Bournemouth |
I have to admit, I don't rate the JBL speakers at all. I also don't classify JBL as audio reference specialists. I listen to rock, acoustic and country/rock and find the sound a bit too flat across the board and not as detailed in clarity as other vehicles/speakers I have owned. I actually bought front replacement speakers and satellites to fit but can't get the door cards off! Why can't manufacturers make it easy by simply removing the speaker grille? | ||
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Pappnase
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Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Rich wrote ... ...and find the sound a bit too flat across the board and not as detailed in clarity as other vehicles/speakers I have owned. ... Exactly how I would describe it. I went to the Audio guys today. I should have known it. The essence of a good system is speaker quality. They showed me 4 pairs of (165 mm bass)/tweeter combinations in the range of 250€ to over 1000€ a pair and there were HUGE differences in sound quality. Guess which sounded best, even a lot better than the XM ICE. I will have to go there again and bring my own CDs. They say they install the front speakers for 200€ plus insulation and parts which probably add up to another 100€. Not cheap. But I hate taking the panels off myself. Did this a zillion times on the XM to repair the power windows. Papp |
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smihaialex
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 Member No: #1031
Location: Bucharest |
I don't know... I'm not much of an audiophile, but I do like my music and my C6 w RT3 & JBL sounds pretty amazing  My set-up is Bass @ +9 & Treble @ +6 and Front-Rear @ -3 so that I, as the driver, don't only hear sound coming from the front, but also from the back, uniform. Also, I must mention that I don't push the volume too high - I normally am @ 3, when listening to something with interest @ 5, I crank up my jams to a 7 and would never go beyond 10 (out of 30 if I remember correctly). Having said that, I have no doubt that replacing the stock speakers, be they JBL or not, w some Focal or Hertz, and also adding some proper soundproofing would greatly improve range, volume and fidelity  No doubt whatsoever!Other great options include Coustic, Crunch, DLS, JL Audio, Infinity, Mac Audio, MTX & Rockford Fosgate... I know all this stuff because I did some audio tuning myself on the C4 (nothin' major), but the very first things that I replaced were the stock speakers and the results were good enough to make me not wanna change anything else Cheerios, Sam |
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Tjensen
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  Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
The first I did with the XM V6 was changing the 6 loudspeakers with good Pioneers. Big difference and very acceptable sound. The C6 is even better, and with the top-level sound isolation the music experience is now absolute in top class. | ||
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ChrisHunter
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 Member No: #188
Location: Lancashire |
we have our radio on with the volume at zero - ie: use it just for TA ... occasionally, we'll play some Amy Winehouse, or Chris Rea ... but we find it disappointing, even fatiguing - from the first, we thought the rear (back shelf) speakers were disconnected, but have never got-around to investigating, because the rest don't sound so good, anyway ... controls are fine, and the TA works well & is perfectly intelligible - so ... fine ! |
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Pappnase
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Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Funny I never felt the urge to change speakers in my four XMs. But in the C6 it was about the second thought. And then people here (and in the German forum) are completely happy with the JBL system. Sound appears to be more a matter of taste than I thought. Anyway, I visited another dealer today and listened to several speakers. I'll have to think because what I like is not cheap. |
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Ped
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 Member No: #82
Location: Maidenhead |
If I turn the radio off straight after starting the car then turn it back on again it comes through very weak and weedy, almost like it's coming from a boombox. It's strange, but now I know that it happens I can avoid it. The rest of the time I'm very happy with it; to my ears it sounds very rich and full and not lacking in detail in the high range. It'd be nice for it to have a bit more kick in the low mids but as with all car stereos as soon as you start moving then it's a different ballgame and I find the JBL is tuned very well to work with the road noise. I'd be interested to hear an upgraded system but it hasn't crossed my mind to do anything to mine, and I am quite particular in my audio tastes (Bass player and build my own hifi) Definitely a matter of taste. On a similar note I recently 'upgraded' my Grado SR60 headphones to the SR125s and sold them in preference to the much cheaper SR60s. I think I find too much artificial bass boosting unflattering and fatiguing to listen to - the C6 sounds very transparent and natural, to my ears. ped |
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Tjensen
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Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
The audio becomes weak and woolly and distant automatically if the system thinks it has something important to say (safety massages, beeps from the distance sensors, etc) | ||
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ChrisHunter
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Member No: #188
Location: Lancashire |
>it'd be nice for it to have a bit more kick in the low mids but as with all car stereos as soon as you start moving then it's a different ballgame and I find the JBL is tuned very well to work with the road noise ... ah, maybe that's it - perhaps we'll try it again ... OTOH, the car's so good to drive, the added distraction is usually unwelcome - so, next time we're in a 'jam, perhaps ! |
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Pappnase
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Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
OK it's done. I made an appointment in the Car Hifi workshop in about two weeks. They're going to replace front speakers, modify the door damping with Alubutyl mats and I'll get a four channel amp with integrated DSP (digital sound processor). This is the big solution and costs quite a bit but I wanted it since I am spending more than two hours a day in the car. I made several measurements last weekend with a frequency analyzer app for the iPhone. Mainly frequency response. I have ordered a proper measuring microphone but for now the integrated one must do. The response is much better than I thought, see attachment. Bass is a bit weak. Trebles are quite good as it appears. So I understand that people are happy with the JBL sound system provided their ears are better than mine. Another experiment I made is wearing my hearing aids. I have a slight dip for frequencies 3 kHz and up, which just qualifies me for getting the aids. I don't wear them regularly though, in particular not in the car, because they also amplify wind noise. But they are surprisingly useful in classical concerts. And, as it appears, also in the C6. The sound is much better, but still not really good enough, at least since I tasted blood while listening to better equipment. I wonder why I did not have problem with the XM though. Here comes the advantage of the DSP. It can not only iron the frequency response curve and boost the bass down to 35 Hz without a subwoofer (I listened to it with a Charlie Haden/Pat Metheny duo record, impressive!), but it also comes with two presets and a switch for these. So I'll leave one preset linear and modify the other with the inverse of my hearing curve. So I basically have natural wind noise suppression  .I am very curious about the result. Papp  |
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Tjensen
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Member No: #954
Location: Bergen |
Interesting ! Danish HighFidelity had a series of measurents of acoustics in cars and a car seem to be a fairly good listening environment AND different cars may be very different (XM=lots of glass and an big space, but with more background noice.) I liked blues and rock very good in the C6, but Diana Krall was not the same sucess, still waiting to try classical concerts and opera. | ||
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Pappnase
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Member No: #1044
Location: Bonn |
Is that article available online? Don't worry about the Danish, I'd manage somehow. Papp |
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